Cracked stock

[slow_runner]

I am seeking advice from the esteemed members of this forum (but not exclusively).

Even though I had sworn off any BSAs post the Cadet Major series I relented and bought an Airsporter.
Its the satin-black painted EN series in 0.177"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psfd28b444.jpg

My question is this; are they all prone to stock splitting in this region?
A local wood turner artisan has recommended using titebond3 wood glue for a secure repair.

Above
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps73754fae.jpg

Below
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps953a654c.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psea80515f.jpg

There is some oil/dirt to be removed first though. This contamination does not appear to be full depth, likely superficial.
How can I best go about cleaning this prior to applying the glue?

Cheers.

[Airsporter1st]

I am seeking advice from the esteemed members of this forum (but not exclusively).

Even though I had sworn off any BSAs post the Cadet Major series I relented and bought an Airsporter.
Its the satin-black painted EN series in 0.177"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psfd28b444.jpg

My question is this; are they all prone to stock splitting in this region?
A local wood turner artisan has recommended using titebond3 wood glue for a secure repair.

Above
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps73754fae.jpg

Below
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps953a654c.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psea80515f.jpg

There is some oil/dirt to be removed first though. This contamination does not appear to be full depth, likely superficial.
How can I best go about cleaning this prior to applying the glue?

Cheers.

Yes - they are all prone to splitting in that area. This may be exacerbated by not keeping the stock screws tight and/or over-enthusiastic cocking.

I use a solvent such as isopropanol (available from Maplins or on E8ay) to clean the area before thumbing in some PVA adhesive (what your guy suggests sounds good) until it exudes from the other side of the crack and then clamping it lightly* to set.

*If you clamp it too tightly, you will squeeze out all the adhesive which will defeat the purpose.

P.S. If you intend sanding the stock, do it first, collect the sawdust and mix it in with the glue, especially where it will be at the surface. This will help to disguise the repair.

[Peter Dunkley]

Hi all the advice so far seems excellent. Never used Titebond myself but it looks good. You could also use Acetone to clean out the crack but it wont do the finish on the stock much good.
The only extra advice I would give is do not be in any sort of a hurry about cleaning. Do it and let it dry well then do it again until you are fed up of cleaning it. How clean it is will reflect in the finished strength.
Good luck.

[Airsporter1st]

Hi all the advice so far seems excellent. Never used Titebond myself but it looks good. You could also use Acetone to clean out the crack but it wont do the finish on the stock much good.
The only extra advice I would give is do not be in any sort of a hurry about cleaning. Do it and let it dry well then do it again until you are fed up of cleaning it. How clean it is will reflect in the finished strength.
Good luck.

Absolutely correct - sorry for the omission.

[air-tech]

I have to disagree with Paul on one aspect here, the less adhesive the stronger the bond and the more invisible it will be, to the point of complete invisibility.

PVA has very good adhesion but it's actually rather soft, a lot of it makes for a weaker join. Unlike epoxy which sets hard.

Carpenters will clamp-up all joints tightly when possible, the only thing to look out for is that sometimes you can deform the join by applying too much pressure resulting in it opening up in places and this is very true of a repair that is very awkward to clamp up like on a gun stock.

If the break is clean you just wet it with the PVA and clamp it well and depending on your clamping skills you may very well make the repair 100% invisible. Only use fillers afterwards if the edges of the break have been damaged leaving missing wood.

Looking at your pics the repair should come out very well the only reason it may be visible is that it's an old crack and has got dirty. Would be sortable if/when the stock were refinished, and again in such case the less glue you have the better because the crack will be incredibly fine.

[Airsporterman]

Just PVA glue - can be thinned slightly with water to get it into the crack - lightly clamp and wipe off the excess, allow to dry and jobs a good one, done correctly, repair should be almost invisible and as strong (if not stronger) than before!
As Airsporter1st says - typical crack in the stock!
Airsporterman

[Chippendale]

Agree with Airtrech on the amount of glue required, I am a retired Joiner of over fifty years but well remember being taught that the way glue works on timber is that the wood fibres each side of the split/crack absorb the glue which then makes the bond, therefore a thick glue line is weaker.
Correct clamping though is essential whatever is being glued.
Just thought I'd have my two penn'orth.

Chippendale (with clothes on)

[battyone]

Agree with Airtrech on the amount of glue required, I am a retired Joiner of over fifty years but well remember being taught that the way glue works on timber is that the wood fibres each side of the split/crack absorb the glue which then makes the bond, therefore a thick glue line is weaker.
Correct clamping though is essential whatever is being glued.
Just thought I'd have my two penn'orth.

Chippendale (with clothes on)

A great explanation of how a good bond is made
I use a 2part laminating epoxy, it's really thin. I keep applying a little at a time, adding more once the previous has been soaked up by the wood. When the wood won't absorb any more it's time to clamp it up.

For really awkward shapes, that clamps just won't hold well, or delicate surfaces that would mark, I use shrinkwrap clingfilm. Can be got from maplins on a little holder. Parcel string is a good "clamp" too, if you need something pulling really tight then soak the string in water, wrap tight while wet - a short stick or pencil as a torniquet- as it dries it pulls even tighter.

Unfortunately as previously pointed out a dirty crack -ooer missus- will always be visible.

[john1]

I've used this to good effect on similar cracks.

http://www.zapglue.com/cas/

The pink one is unbelievably thin. You just touch a dfrop on the crack and it draws itself in. then just clamp for ten minutes and you are done.

Just use extreme caution with this stuff its basically super super fast super glue. Mind your fingers

John

[slow_runner]

Thanks for all your recommendations and advice.
Mention has been made that it is the absorption of the glue by the wood fibre that gives strength and integrity to the repair.
I have been reading up on Tightbond3 and note that it can be diluted up to 5% without compromising its strength. So on that note I was thinking that perhaps it would be an idea to pre-wet (lightly dampen) the join with a water mist, wait a time, then introduce the glue into the crack, making sure of full coverage then clamping using rubber tube or strip or the tourniquet.
What is your opinion on that ?
About the oil/dirt contamination; I have some Ispropyl so I'm thinking I'll give it a whirl, applying with an artist brush, overhead style so then oil doesn't wash further into the crack.

I have an old Slavia 624 stock with a clean fore-end crack that I shall practice on before inflicting my inexperience on this Airsporter.
This BSA deserves better care than it has experience to date

[Airsporter1st]

I have to disagree with Paul on one aspect here, the less adhesive the stronger the bond and the more invisible it will be, to the point of complete invisibility.

PVA has very good adhesion but it's actually rather soft, a lot of it makes for a weaker join. Unlike epoxy which sets hard.

Carpenters will clamp-up all joints tightly when possible, the only thing to look out for is that sometimes you can deform the join by applying too much pressure resulting in it opening up in places and this is very true of a repair that is very awkward to clamp up like on a gun stock.

If the break is clean you just wet it with the PVA and clamp it well and depending on your clamping skills you may very well make the repair 100% invisible. Only use fillers afterwards if the edges of the break have been damaged leaving missing wood.

Looking at your pics the repair should come out very well the only reason it may be visible is that it's an old crack and has got dirty. Would be sortable if/when the stock were refinished, and again in such case the less glue you have the better because the crack will be incredibly fine.

Agree with Airtrech on the amount of glue required, I am a retired Joiner of over fifty years but well remember being taught that the way glue works on timber is that the wood fibres each side of the split/crack absorb the glue which then makes the bond, therefore a thick glue line is weaker.
Correct clamping though is essential whatever is being glued.
Just thought I'd have my two penn'orth.

Chippendale (with clothes on)

In my defence, the argument for clamping lightly so as not to squeeze out all the glue, is advanced by no less than Norm Abrams of New Yankee Workshop fame.

However, I'm happy to be contradicted on this point because I've never tried clamping the joint tightly myself.

[oliver13]

I wouldn't wet the joint beforehand, it will stop the glue getting into the fibres properly.

Use about a foot of thread to get the glue right into the crack, put a generous bead of adhesive on the crack & use it like a cheese wire & saw it back & forth down the crack a few times then clamp it, I would use a decent sized G clamp with a couple of pieces of ply for padding. It would also be wise to fit the action before you clamp it to make sure everything remains in alignment, especially the fore end screws, I've found Airsporter stocks to be prone to some twisting if you give it the chance.
Wipe surplus adhesive off with a damp cloth then stick the clamped gun in the airing cupboard overnight.

I wouldn't use anything but waterproof PVA in a tight crack like that, I've not had much luck with superglues & other alternatives. Titebond is very good but I don't find it as strong as PVA - but if you ever have to do any joinery with wonky pieces of wood it's a Godsend.

[slow_runner]

Thanks for the clue on fitting the action to ensure correct alignment Oliver.
It seems the integrity of the Airsporter stock is very reliant on a firmly mounted action. Looking at it now, it is very apparent; quite flimsy
Also on using the thread . Seems I have read elsewhere that compressed air is good to spread that glue through the crack.
This weekend I'll trial out the glues I have on hand on scrap timber; white PVA, yellow PVA (water resistant?), West System epoxy (my sons') and the Titebond3.
I will set them aside for a few days and give them some grief to see what holds best

[oliver13]

It worth noting, PVA will wipe off cleanly with a damp cloth & won't stick to the varnish around rhe crack, Titebond & similar - PU glue, PU expanding foam, Gorilla glue etc. stick to anything & everything, if you ever do a long bead of gorilla glue & get your sleeve in it you can look forward to hours of sticky fun - I did that last week...

[Peter Dunkley]

For wood I always use Resin EVO W which is a PVA
There may be better glues I have not tried them all but thinned a little I find it good for getting into thin cracks. I have tried to break the bond a few times when the pieces have slipped when glued. "two separate bits of wood" and in every case it has been impossible, the surrounding wood breaks first. Never on the glue line.