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Thread: 577 enfield shooting question

  1. #1
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    577 enfield shooting question

    What do you guys use on the patch to swab out between shots when shooting a 577 Enfield ? Someone mentioned meths and water mixed, never heard of this one before but if it is used what's the ratio ? Any other suggestions ? I'm not talking about the proper clean at the end of a session but during a comp for example.
    Remember, it is the strongest character that God gives the most challenges.

  2. #2
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    Dunno. I've never swabbed between shots, me. Thirty-something shots is bout my limit though.

    Guess it's just like any other m/l though - if you like the smell of olive oil go for it, same if you like alcohol. Me, I'd use something like Blue & Grey or similar - depends on what your dealer has. Birchwood-Casey B/p cleaner maybe?

    tac

  3. #3
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    i dont know anyone who uses any thing on the swab, dry swab, change every 15-20 shots
    "Men occasionally stumble on the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened" Winston Churchill
    http://planetairgun.com/index.php

  4. #4
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    A friend on his sharps runs a dry swab every shot

  5. #5
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    I guess my bullets must be too large then. I can fire two without running a patch through but the third is too tight and feels like it going to get stuck. Also I noticed that crud must be accumulating at the breech end as I marked the loading rod when the first bullet was firmly seated and all subsequent bullets were seating higher, the third by 1/2". Decided not to shot any more until I check this out.
    Remember, it is the strongest character that God gives the most challenges.

  6. #6
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    E45

    I give a quick scrub with a piece of 4x2 lightly dipped in E45 skin cream every 4 shots or so in my Charles Moore .44 pistol. I can feel a ring of crud about three inches up from the chamber which can make getting the next ball seated difficult without hammering. After the scrub the balls seats nicely with hand pressure. I try not to get it too wet so as not to dampen the powder.
    [I]DesG
    Domani e troppo tardi

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the replies. Still not happy with the bullets seating higher after a few shots. Anyone else experience this or do you reckon I'm doing something wrong ?
    Remember, it is the strongest character that God gives the most challenges.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by vbull View Post
    I guess my bullets must be too large then. I can fire two without running a patch through but the third is too tight and feels like it going to get stuck. Also I noticed that crud must be accumulating at the breech end as I marked the loading rod when the first bullet was firmly seated and all subsequent bullets were seating higher, the third by 1/2". Decided not to shot any more until I check this out.
    'kay...to all of you/us who experience the 'ring of crud' about three inches up the bore. This is quite normal when shooting BP, and happens because of the wondrous tusrn of events that takes place when we squeeze that trigger.

    1. The flash of ignition from the cap starts the charge burning - VERY quickly.

    2. About fifty per cent of the charge turns almost instantly in gas - expanding violently - and some of the remainder carries on burning more slowly, thus contributing to the production of expansive propellant gas.

    3. Because the constituents of BP contain both their own oxygen AND hydrogen, some of it turns into water - even at that pressure -

    4. The rest turns into ashy crud - mixed with the water - we call it fouling.

    5. That ashy crud, in the form of thick black gloop, travels up the bore as gloop, but by the time it gets around three/four inches up the bore, the heat remaining in the barrel has dried it out, leaving it like a tide-mark inside the barrel.

    THAT is your ring of crud.

    It can be reduced by the use of a good lubricant, but never altogether obviated.

    After about 20 shots, my Musketoon needs a good clean out, others, here, experience the same state of affairs after only a few shots. To continue shooting safely and ensure that the bullet or ball is firmly down on the powder is a paramount necessity that cannot be avoided - ANY air-space twixt powder and ball/bullet and you stand the possibility of having made a pipe bomb.

    @V.vbull - if you are shooting a Minié bullet, and it goes DOWN the barrel just fine, then you are NOT shooting a bullet that is too big - if it was, it simply wouldn't go down the barrel. Trust me - I've probably fired upwards of twenty thousand Minié bullets so far. Even if it is tight - in your opinion - that makes no difference. All that is needed is a bullet that is 0.001" - 0.002" smaller that the bore to be effective. Even a 'thou' bigger means that you simply can't load it in the fust place. What you DO need is a good lube in those grooves - lots of folks put the stuff in the base, too. I don't. Here in temperate UK you'll need a fairly stiff lube mix - many, including me use a 50/50 bee's wax and tallow, or simply buy Bore Butter, although it's expensive stuff here in UK.

    As for E45 - I've been using it, as my posts here will testify, since the early '80s as a chamber sealer on BP revolvers, but a bullet lube for any grooved bullet like a Minié it ain't. Way too gloppy.

    Hope this helps.

    tac
    Last edited by tacfoley; 08-06-2014 at 01:45 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesG View Post
    I give a quick scrub with a piece of 4x2 lightly dipped in E45 skin cream every 4 shots or so in my Charles Moore .44 pistol. I can feel a ring of crud about three inches up from the chamber which can make getting the next ball seated difficult without hammering. After the scrub the balls seats nicely with hand pressure. I try not to get it too wet so as not to dampen the powder.
    Don't you shoot with patches?

    tac

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by vbull View Post
    Thanks for the replies. Still not happy with the bullets seating higher after a few shots. Anyone else experience this or do you reckon I'm doing something wrong ?
    Sir - do not - under ANY circumstances - try and shoot a short-loaded bullet in ANY firearm.

    ANY air-space between powder and ball give you that chance of shooting a literal pipe-bomb.

    The least you will get is a bulged/ringed barrel.

    The most you can get is a burst barrel, right where you will be holding it.

    See the useful and petrifying little movie on Youtube about this very subject.

    Whatever it takes, you MUST seat that bullet on the charge - shoot it, and THEN sort out the cruddy tide-ring.

    tac

  11. #11
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    patches

    Quote Originally Posted by tacfoley View Post
    Don't you shoot with patches?

    tac
    14 thou black tight woven cotton cut from my old work trousers (thankfully no longer required, retirement is grand) Lubed with extra virgin olive oil. Work a dream with a .440 ball.

    I have marked my working ramrod with yellow tape to show full seating. As stated above, not fully seating the ball (patched or otherwise) could ruin your entire day!
    Last edited by DesG; 08-06-2014 at 05:04 PM. Reason: addition.
    [I]DesG
    Domani e troppo tardi

  12. #12
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    Thanks for the advice Tac, I did end up using a wood mallet on the bullet as I already knew it was vital to sit the bullet on the powder.
    Remember, it is the strongest character that God gives the most challenges.

  13. #13
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    As Tac said it is down to the lubricant. I vary mine according to the season. In summer, on a hot day, I increase the amount of beeswax to tallow. In winter I reduce the amount of beeswax so the lube is not too stiff to do its job.

    I do not have a problem loading a minnie bullet after several shots, in fact I can shoot all day without any problems.
    This is down to the lube, it should be leaving a thin coating on the bore so the residue left behind does not crust up.

    When I first started using muzzleloaders I had to scrub the barrel out with a phosphor bronze brush after a few shots. This, I thought, is not right, so I experimented with different lubes, ( even Trex which worked), until I found a combination that kept the residue soft in the bore.
    I expect the lube to vary from powder to powder due to the amount of residue left behind, (on average 30% of the charge, so I am told).

    Interestingly, a friend of mine went to the Continent a few years ago to shoot a match. It was won by a German, and he (the German) did not have any problems loading Minnie bullets. He was inserting it into the barrel and letting the weight of the ramrod seat it.

    I am not saying that the lube will work all the time in any gun, but it will make the day less troublesome if you do not have to keep swabbing out every few shots if you can formulate one that does work.
    Last edited by enfield2band; 08-06-2014 at 06:57 PM.

  14. #14
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    BP Lube

    Paul Matthews formula for a saponified lube prevents the problem of hard fouling - Blow down the barrel after each shot and the lube residue softens

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodgyrog View Post
    Paul Matthews formula for a saponified lube prevents the problem of hard fouling - Blow down the barrel after each shot and the lube residue softens
    Being THE definitive cheapskate, that is what I do, too.

    I'm even doing it on my Youtube movie of me shooting my Musketoon.

    tac

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