JESUS H!!! 14 pages in and we STILL dont know if its any good or not.
This forum is a joke sometimes!
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Buy a steyr hunting 5 no reason to come off aim, i shoot rats with mine and dont even move my head away from the scope. My trigger finger slips from the trigger to the cocking handle and a quick flick and back to trigger and next shot is ready in less than 2 secondsOriginally Posted by evenbad
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JESUS H!!! 14 pages in and we STILL dont know if its any good or not.
This forum is a joke sometimes!
Lost love child of David Niven and Victoria Beckham
I think Nanny McPhee has some guidance on the subject...
When you want me, but do not need me then I will stay (single shot only).
When you have me and f*&k it up by being a cock, I shall turn into a catapault.
It's rather sad, really, but there it is.
Last edited by harvey_s; 05-07-2014 at 04:13 AM.
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Personally i believe there really isn't a requirement for them, but, and a very big but, if there are people wanting them then by all means make them "legal but on ticket" at fac level in perhaps the way the air wolf works. This would put them out of the hands of the would-be drive by shooters and into the hands of the hopefully more responsible shooter that actually wants to go down this route. Then they can have them at whatever level of power they want, ie 6ftlb or 60ftlb. The boys in blue would be happy because they will know who and where they are via the ticket in the same way the semi auto rim fire's are recorded.
All those asking for the second shot argument, the answer is very simple buy a steyr hunting 5. I can get all 5 shots off in less than 10 seconds but not accurately (speed due to the design of the cocking lever). 20 seconds and they are accurate shots. Far better than anything else out there including the hw100 and before anyone says anything contrary i own both so speaking from experience.
I own a semi auto rifire and cannot accurately get off a ten round magazine so to use the argument that a second shot is required quickly is in my opinion rubbish. The best i can do after the first shot is a 10 shot group in about 3" at 50mtrs. I certainly would never contemplate taking a second shot at something squirming around injured due to a badly placed shot. It lends itself to another non fatal shot or missing altogether and a ricochet. It's down gun, and leg it over and dispatch it via another means. I sell more bolt action than semi auto rimfires, that must say something. The best "quick action" bolt rimfire is in my opinion the browning t-Bolt due to the straight pull system allowing very quick and accurate shots.
I have nothing against the semi auto but once the price come's down then they will start getting onto the second hand market where the idiots will be able to get their hands on them. It is not always the person that bought the gun that sells it. We have plenty of people that come in and a relative has died etc and want to dispose of a shotgun etc but don't know what to do. They will probably take little notice or care about how they dispose of an air rifle as most perceive these as "toys". They invariably won't know that their long lost relative paid £1500 the previous week for it, they "just dont like guns" and want to sell it/dispose of it as quickly as possible. They probably wouldn't even bother taking it to an rfd just sell it in the local rag. You know the advert "very powerful and accurate 2.2/1.77 air rifle for sale". What will they sell it on for? £50, £100 etc.
As already mentioned a "drive by" shooting with one of these would give the press undeniable cannon fodder to hit our sport with. It is bad enough that we are frequently hit with stories of some toe rag shooting cats and little oap's with "normal" air rifles. Imagine the headlines "bus stop drive by shooting, 7 hit by yob with semi auto air rifle"
do we honestly need that sort of publicity. At least on ticket they would be far more difficult to get hold of. And those with them on ticket would, i hope be less likely to do the drive by shooting.
criminals , yobs etc couldn't care a stuff if a semi auto air rifle was on ticket or not, they would still get their grubby hands on one. The flip side of the coin is sub 12/ft Ib may not be appealing as a high powered air rifle my opinion .
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Not that many criminals go out and buy air rifles yet far more yobs do. Think about your statement or you know little about the requirements of a firearms ticket. Few yobs will be able or bothered to apply for a fac ticket to get a fac air rifle and as a yob may well be known to the local constabulary so less likely to get such ticket. The only other way to get hold of one is to steal one if they were on ticket. This would require breaking into a property and stealing said fac from secure cabinet. They are no longer a yob but a criminal and could have easily stolen a 308 rifle as a .22 air rifle. The flip side it is not a sub 12ftlb if it is classed as high powered it is fac and on ticket therefore required to be locked in cabinet. Where on earth is your statement going?
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That's it then. Ban all guns. It's the only way we can be sure yobs aren't getting access to them.
Doesn't matter if you enjoy shooting them. The police and current legislation can't deal with yobs so we'll just have to hand in our guns for the safety of everyone.
Some of you people may as well be plants for Mothers Against Guns the way your banging on about sub 12ft/lb semi autos!!!
And I thought the government were anti-gun
And do you people really think that if a "yob did a drive-by" with an air rifle that the media would care if it was semi-auto or bolt action? No they wouldn't. It would be the usual BBC/daily mail "deadly firearm" crap. And when was the last time a drive-by was committed with an air rifle? I can see it now...
Jamaican Yardies... "let's pop that bitch", "oh goodie! I'll just get my semi-auto sub 12ft/lb air rifle ...just need to top up the air first and charge the batteries for it and we can go smoke that fool"
No they won't! They'll use an already illegal/illegally held hand gun, shotgun or sub machine gun.
Last edited by TankJon; 05-07-2014 at 06:21 AM.
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Until we learn from history the same mistakes will be made over and over again.
Look at what Putin has done destabilising the Ukraine and annexing the Crimea, then take a look at what happened between Italy and Abyssinia in 1935. Weak foreign policy allowed the annexation and demonstrated to the world that ground would be given in the face of aggression and in effect gave a 'green light' to Germany's adoption of a similarly aggressive and expansionist foreign policy. Combine that with Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement and look how that ended. We all lived happily ever after didn't we?
The anti gun lobby isn't rational. They don't care if it is a cheap SMK springer or a semi auto sub 12. They want them all gone. By taking a step back the AMTA is giving them the space to take another step forward.
Personally I do not see a need for sub 12 semis in the UK at the moment, as they are such a niche market. But then most people don't NEED a £500 scope on a rifle; but many people do have them because of the pleasure they get which may derive from the improved light transmission or maybe just the confidence that a given brand name inspires. High end optics are used at the sharp end of military service. Does having one fitted to an air rifle make it into a 'sniper' rifle any more than the press would describe a £50 Chinese junker that had a £5 piece of tube you could barely see through bolted to the top the moment that they thought their sensationalist 'moral crusade' would sell extra copy?
How about we draw a line in the sand, instead of sticking our heads into it and hoping the antis will stop pushing their agenda if we give ground.
Last edited by GaleForceEight; 05-07-2014 at 09:20 AM. Reason: original post from phone - predictive text errors ameliorated.
aut pax aut bellum
The BASC swing a big stick, as do other organisations representing the sport and industry.
They are part of the process of law making/changing/clarifying. That is why what they say is important.
There appears to have arisen a disparity between what we understand to be the official position and an organisation.
What could happen if other powerful representative organisations fell in line? That the official position might change to reflect theirs? For some that's not too much of a stretch of the imagination.
That is the fear of some, but also a comfort to some others.
The crux being obvious.
Now if memory serves I think the instigation for the BASC's initial flawed 'guidance' in the incident mentioned by yourself was the advice of experts, experts that had their advice rightly ignored after pressure from the community and clarification from the authorities. Hitchins says to "Picture all experts as if they were mammals." I don't think he's wrong, we are all fallible.
I like the current staus quo and (I think) our progress. I don't want it changed by anyone, not those in authority, not them that represent others nor thems that represent me, not by companies, not by individuals neither - however well intentioned they all are - unless, that is, there is a credible, direct, unambiguous, non-hypothetical threat.
Because we wouldn't be drawing a line in the sand, we'd be sticking a knife in our own guts.
What should be happening is that we (all parties concerned) just putter along like we have done.
Discouraging big changes to the status quo whilst at the same time building our numbers, slowly swelling the background conditions and biding our time.
I do think the whole Scotland thing shows how frail that plan is to all of us, but we don't really have any other alternative game plan do we?
And we aren't going to take up ones that look like Harakiri, even if we believe ultimately in the moral justification behind the desire.
The Bulletproof Monk
If you really want one order one from Europe confident that BASC, The Home Office and the CPS have all confirmed they should be considered UK legal
Without a change in law the how can the CPS charge you given they have already stated in writing they are perfectly legal?
Your risk is purely that a future legislative change may change the rules as happened to Brocock, since the HO has confirmed it won't pay compensation in future you may have to hand it in but you cant be charged as long as you surrender it before the deadline.
Whether the trade association chooses to manufacture or import is surely irrelevant as only the HO can change the current legal position.
There are enough private imports doing the rounds now to have proved the point
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I think there would be a use, specifically rat control where there are large rat numbers to be dealt with, where being able to fire quickly at multiple targets at relatively close range would be very useful. Particularly if coupled with the higer power levels allowed on ticket and a hollow point pellet therefore they should only be allowed on ticket thus keeping them out of the hands of undesirables.
For those saying that the noise precludes the use on multiple targets my guess would be that they have never shot a heavily rat infested farm where shooting 2-3 rats in succession is possible despite the sound of the hammer knocking open the valve / reg of a PCP. I have even shot 3 rabbits sat within 40 yards of each other in succession with an HMR so quarry will not always spook with noise. Ok, you wouldnt want to blatting away at rabbits 50 yards away but rats at 10-20 would be less demanding in terms of accuracy and would allow quick but still humane kills.
The other thing when comparing the potential accuracy compared to a .22RF is that with a PCP there will be no case to eject so much less recoil which will help with accuracy too.
Last edited by 223AI; 06-07-2014 at 07:48 PM.
Thanks for looking
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Saw one today, hav'nt shot it, but the owner has brought a couple in from Europe, all legal to own (but not legal to buy in UK...apparently...(stupid law) he is well pleased with them, cock once fire 5 times...with talk of a bigger mag to come. Nice looking gun too.
The Bulletproof Monk
As above completely legal to buy sell and own in the UK.
Bought one semi auto sub 12FTLB very accurate in semi auto mode ideal for a fast follow up shot or should a second target present themselves see my thread, go and buy one if you wish as its your money and freedom of choice still exists.
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necro thead!
Just been reading a few of the earlier posts and wonder if Terry D is still of the same opinion now as before. This would especially be interesting given that it would seem that they are in fact perfectly legal to own.
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