Hate to 'stir the semi auto nest' but...

[DCL_dave]

So its ok to own, buy or sell a sub 12fpe skan?

Hi Nick,

I have a Skan R32 (bottom gun in this pic) ...it has a grip cocking mechanism, to use it you have to depress a button on the front of the action and shuttle the grip backwards to cock the mechanism and cycle the mag, then push it forwards to set the trigger and load a pellet, then pull the trigger...and this has to be done for each shot...it is not semi-auto by any definition!


...and besides, the mk2 Phoenix pictured above it is much quicker in use, but it is still manually cycled for each shot.

[tinbum]

Hi Nick,

I have a Skan R32 (bottom gun in this pic) ...it has a grip cocking mechanism, to use it you have to depress a button on the front of the action and shuttle the grip backwards to cock the mechanism and cycle the mag, then push it forwards to set the trigger and load a pellet, then pull the trigger...and this has to be done for each shot...it is not semi-auto by any definition!


...and besides, the mk2 Phoenix pictured above it is much quicker in use, but it is still manually cycled for each shot.

Thanks Dave, I was thinkng specifically about the pump action ones.

[Minuteman]

Thanks Dave, I was thinking specifically about the pump action ones.

Aye, Like mine - http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w.../BBS/Skan2.jpg

[the logun-ator]

...pump action airguns are and have always been legal in sub 12ftlbs only which is why ive converted mine.
http://www.justairguns.co.uk/source/know_your_law.pdf
''
So what types of air weapon are prohibited?
''
read the bit in red..thats what ive been working off...that and the fact that mine were confiscated(and all returned) a bit back due to customs holding a perfectly legally sent and disclosed airpistol and them telling the fuzz i was an international arms dealer...which was nice.
in a phone call to the firearms testers them selves,who im assuming know there stuff,they also stated they were fully legal but only in sub 12ftlbs..so ive converted a couple.
mind you they use some lead!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjydmiXzIt8

[Snooper601]

'5 Weapons subject to general prohibition.E+W+S.(1)As an offence if, without the authority of the Defence Council [F8or the Scottish Ministers (by virtue of provision made under section 63 of the Scotland Act 1998)], he has in his possession, or purchases or acquires, or manufactures, sells or transfers— .
[F9(a)any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger; .
(ab)any self-loading or pump-action [F10 rifled gun] other than one which is chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges;

I've added the bold, but that's the law, as stated in the Firearms Act.

Just so we're clear.

Sorry Terry, you've quoted the wrong section!
You have quoted the FULLY AUTO section of the act not the SEMI AUTO part!
The sentence immediately before your highlighted section says "without repeated pressure on the trigger" I.e. hold it down and it keeps firing automatically.

Please show us the correct section for Semi-auto?

Btw, how does a FX Revolution at 12fpe stand legally? Does the st barrel make it a smoothbore?

Cheers

John

[bigtoe01]

Here is what BASC said regards semi auto's

The Home Office have consulted ACPO and the Crown Prosecution Service about the legal status of these
weapons and have agreed, in the absence of a court ruling, that the issue should be resolved formally at the next
legislative opportunity. In the meantime chief officers are advised that self-loading or pump-action rifled airguns
should continue to be regarded as falling outside the certification process provided that they are low powered
and do not fall within the Firearms (Dangerous Air Weapons) Rules 1969

Regards shrouded sub305mm barrels, we have had test cases and test cases are in progress, show me exactly in law (written ) where it says you can apply a shroud and that shroud can be then taken as part of the barrel (so increasing its length) I could not find it, and neither can FLO's as they are advising RFD's to NOT shorten barrels below 305mm especially those on FAC or weapons being uprated to SEC1 as they become sect 5.

I talk to FRD's and get what their contacts in the police are quoting as well as reading what BASC are saying and reading for myself. Unless the law again has changed (which I will humbly apologise for not reading and quoting) this is how i see it standing right now.

[RobF]

And a Home Office working definition is the one that matters in this instance, MM.

I'm not sure how the definition/guidance applies to one aspect of pistols yet not another. How does it apply to paint and airsoft?

[oling]

Definition. 'Rifled gun' being a rifle, not a pistol.

Crosman 1077/ Beretta CX4 Storm/ Crosman Nightstalker...? Many many retailers in the UK sell them as I've seen them with my own eyes. Are they some exception or is it actually the case that sub 12 fpe is exempt from this rule somehow? Or... is it their low power (sub 6 fpe) that allows them to exist. I hate the grey areas to all of this.

[rockdrill]

Crosman 1077

This one is not actually a semi-auto, it is a revolver mechanism dressed up in fancy clothes.

[GaleForceEight]

semi auto sub12 rifled barrel is not illegal, its just been agreed no one will bring them in and sell them...as no one wants to rock the apple cart.

Bigtoe, where did you come by this information?


The problem is that the law is really badly drafted. Basically the way it is written is that everything is illegal except those items that are listed as exceptions under the various sections, and over the various legal amendments it has acquired the consistency of a patchwork quilt

The concept of a semi auto air rifle wasn't considered at the time the law was initially made.

Section 5(1)ab. "Any self loading or pump action rifled gun, other than one which is chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges".

A later amendment specifically covers air rifles
Section 5(1)ac. "Any self loading or pump action smooth-bore gun which is not an air weapon or chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24" or is less than 40" in length overall".

The trick is how you read it, but the legislation does not include a comma separating the 'self loading' from the 'pump action smooth bore', or separating the 'air weapon or chambered for .22 rim fire cartridges'.

The overall implication is that as things stand, smooth bore semi auto air rifles with either a 24" barrel or 40" overall length are legal, but one with a rifled barrel would be section 5, unless perhaps covered under auspices of experimental status by a licensed manufacturer.

I know it doesn't make sense that you can have a Semi Auto .22rf under section 1 but an equivalent air rifle would fall under section 5, but as I said, the legislation is drafted in such a way that does not fully accommodate developments in technology.

[bigtoe01]

members section here on the forum, David from BASC posted they are in fact legal

It's reasonably well know the UK airgun industry does not want to rock the apple cart though (Imagine idiots with 10 shot semi auto rifles would make things far worse than they are now), so won't bring them in or manufacture them for uk sub 12 use...I just wish they would publicly admit to this policy instead of spouting that they are illegal when they are not. I am not bothered we don't have semi auto, what bothers me is that the truth about them is being hidden intentionally, or the subject totally numbed down.

Much like sec1 rifls with sub 305mm barrels, no where does it state you can bond a shroud on and it counts as a barrel in law, there have been cases where bonded shrouds on sub305mm barrels have been kicked out, and there are cases on going right now.

My stance on the two subjects is this, semi auto sub12 is legal right now, but the industry chooses to not make them available, and anyone who runs a sub12 rifle with a sub 305mm barrel needs to make sure it stays sub12, anyone with a sec1 rifle with a sub 305mm barrel (note barrel means the rifled tube and NOT a bonded on shroud) needs to get it rebarrelled asap to conform with the law.

Also there are sub12 semi auto's in the UK, another owner has just been pointed out to me today, if they were illegal this owner would for sure not have it.

[C.Eaton]

£1500 for that ugly motherlover? No thanks!

Reminds me some how of my most wanted Christmas present that never materialised; the Johnny Seven;

http://youtu.be/GPhZsauluXM

[el maipino]

Reminds me some how of my most wanted Christmas present that never materialised; the Johnny Seven;

http://youtu.be/GPhZsauluXM

Looks at this jammy ****, probably related to santa.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1iGSrFLUUw

Chuck needs to relax..too serious.

[Terry D]

Sorry Terry, you've quoted the wrong section!
You have quoted the FULLY AUTO section of the act not the SEMI AUTO part!

No I haven't.

It's Section 5: 1 ab. The previous line deals with full-auto, 5: 1 ab is what it describes. It is not the 'fully auto part'.

The FX Revolution is semi-auto, therefore regarded by the UK FX importer as prohibited.

[harvey_s]

Next question then...is a 'smooth-twist' gun rifled or smooth bore (with a twist )