Easyjet refuse Airrifle shooters for not having license...

[RobF]

3 EFTA Team England shooters including current World Champion refused travel from London Standsted to Bilbao yesterday because they did not have licenses for their rifles which you cannot get licenses for because they don't need one.
These are target shooters representing England in an internationally recognised event.
What has changed, 5 trips with same people, airline and same destination for the past 5 years with no problems.
Will it be #noteasyjet or #easyjet for the future?

Anyone have Basc and the gta's phone numbers?

[rogb]

That's bad news Rob, maybe ferry and drive the way air travel is going?

[RobF]

That's bad news Rob, maybe ferry and drive the way air travel is going?

We did it for Germany. But for further afield flying is the only option. Just can't believe they are now insisting on paperwork that doesn't exist.

[Rich]

Get a residence address in NI, get a FAC there, never take your rifle there, but you now have a piece of paper to satisfy these idiots. Yes I know it costs, but so does not being able to travel and take part after all.

[Maxiboy Wales]

Get a residence address in NI, get a FAC there, never take your rifle there, but you now have a piece of paper to satisfy these idiots. Yes I know it costs, but so does not being able to travel and take part after all.

Sorry I totally disagree with this.. they don't require a license I would complain until the idiot loses his job ... why should we jump though more even non existent hoops than we are already facing because of other peoples ignorance of the law

[angrybear]

Whoever organised the trip obviously failed to organise carriage of the gun's was it the airline that refused or baggage/security/customs ?

[Rich]

Maxi, I battled long and hard with the Home Office and a certain Mr Brokenshire at the time the worlds were going to be held in Poland, about 6 or so years ago, and I am sorry to say there are idiots queuing up to take the place of idiots, the only basic requirement being a total ignorance of the law. Now, if we could have a EFP - and the idea of the EFP was to unify rules on travelling with guns within the EC - all this problem would be solved. But we can't have EFPs because we don't need FACs, and we can't have FACs for sub 12 fpe rifles because it would create such a demand the Home Office and the police could not cope, we are told.

There are only a couple of hundred or so top flight FT shooters in the whole country, and only a fraction of them are keen to travel to overseas events, so the excuse HMG gives is totally hollow.

I would prefer not to use the NI route I suggested but it would be a practical solution. Sometimes we have to take the pragmatic line when "right" and "logic" are persistently ignored.

[Maxiboy Wales]

Maxi, I battled long and hard with the Home Office and a certain Mr Brokenshire at the time the worlds were going to be held in Poland, about 6 or so years ago, and I am sorry to say there are idiots queuing up to take the place of idiots, the only basic requirement being a total ignorance of the law. Now, if we could have a EFP - and the idea of the EFP was to unify rules on travelling with guns within the EC - all this problem would be solved. But we can't have EFPs because we don't need FACs, and we can't have FACs for sub 12 fpe rifles because it would create such a demand the Home Office and the police could not cope, we are told.

There are only a couple of hundred or so top flight FT shooters in the whole country, and only a fraction of them are keen to travel to overseas events, so the excuse HMG gives is totally hollow.

I would prefer not to use the NI route I suggested but it would be a practical solution. Sometimes we have to take the pragmatic line when "right" and "logic" are persistently ignored.

As always I will bow down to your superior knowledge on this subject but I still thinks it stinks... that we are held over a barrel because ignorant people in the wrong can't uphold the law correctly... I wonder if people with daystate rifles will be forced to shoot them before they board to prove the battery's work in them.

world has gone mad

[RobF]

I have that very letter from the ho in my possession rich.

If someone could pm me the contact number for the BASC legal dept that would be helpful.

Let's see what teeth we have.

[Rich]

http://basc.org.uk/firearms/services-to-members/

[skinwiz]

I don't think anyone can do anything where this is concerned in respect of 'any carrier can refuse to carry anything or anyone for any reason provided it's not based on unlawful reasoning . With air weapons it's quite simply a pressure vessel and as such no one is obliged to carry them .
I agree it stinks and I'm no where near ever going to any event anywhere I'm just a paper puncher for fun as it were , but I did work for a courier company dealing with this type of problem on a daily basis .
I'd be interested to know what arrangements were in place for Olympics and commonwealth games , there may be a case for discrimination etc if Olympians have no problems but the common man does .

[Rich]

This is a transcript of a letter from the HO nearly ten years ago. If Nigel Farage thinks he has a job on his hands sorting out some of the tosh that comes out of Brussels and Strasbourg, he could do well to get some practice closer to home, in my view. Here it is:

25 November 2005
Dear xxxxxxxxxx,
EUROPEAN FIREARMS PASSES AND AIR GUNS
Thank you for your email of 23 November about European Firearms Passes (EFPs) and air guns. We also spoke about this earlier in the week.
I can confirm that British firearms law provides for the following:

1. The Firearms (Dangerous Air Weapons) Rules 1969 requires air weapons - other than air pistols - capable of discharging missiles with a muzzle energy in excess of 12 ft Ibs to be held on a firearm certificate. Air pistols capable of discharging missiles with a muzzle energy in excess of 6 ft Ibs are prohibited firearms;

2. Section 5(1)(1) of the Firearms Acts (Amendment) Regulations 1992 says the police can only issue an EFP to somebody who has a firearm or shot gun certificate;

3. Section 5(3)(b)(ii) of the Firearms Acts (Amendment) Regulations 1992 says only firearms held on a current firearm or shot gun certificate can be entered on an EFP;

4. The requirements at 2. and 3. mean air weapons that are not held on a firearm certificate (see 1.) cannot be entered on an EFP;

5. Section 7(2)(b) of the Firearms Act (Amendment) Regulations 1992 says the police cannot require a citizen of another European Union country to produce an EFP where that person can show legislation in their country prevents them from having one for the guns in their possession.

Yours sincerely

I just love the arrogance of the last item; the HO thinks it works in reverse too. Just because WE have made a rule that says OUR police can't demand to see an EFP if the person's home country won't issue one, magically it also applies that when WE go abroad those FOREIGN police can't demand to see OUR EFPs because we can't have one, and that's good enough to let us on our way. That's not the real world.

[Hemmers]

I don't think anyone can do anything where this is concerned in respect of 'any carrier can refuse to carry anything or anyone for any reason provided it's not based on unlawful reasoning . With air weapons it's quite simply a pressure vessel and as such no one is obliged to carry them .
I agree it stinks and I'm no where near ever going to any event anywhere I'm just a paper puncher for fun as it were , but I did work for a courier company dealing with this type of problem on a daily basis .
I'd be interested to know what arrangements were in place for Olympics and commonwealth games , there may be a case for discrimination etc if Olympians have no problems but the common man does .

I'm pretty sure the Welsh squad have flown with sleazyjet several times - apparently they're normally the easiest to get on with. They charge for everything including sports equipment, but that keeps life simple because you book, turn up, check in, fly. As opposed to BA who supposedly carry sports equipment free as the national carrier, but whose desk staff will toss a coin on the day to decide whether or not a rifle is sports equipment, whether they're going to let you check it in complimentary that day, or whether they're going to give you a 3-figure excess baggage charge per case, at which point everyone on the squad has to start pooling their cards to work out who's going to pay for what and throwing apologetic glances at the growing queue of travellers behind them.

Not sure what they do with air rifles and pistols, but the GB and Home Nation teams fly with airguns to European and Worlds events on a monthly basis with a variety of carriers. Sounds like a numpty in EasyJet took umbrage on the day with the airggns. I don't gather it's an airline-wide policy as teams certainly have carried S1, 2 & 5 firearms with them, plus airguns in the past.

[Parabuteo]

I don't think anyone can do anything where this is concerned in respect of 'any carrier can refuse to carry anything or anyone for any reason provided it's not based on unlawful reasoning . With air weapons it's quite simply a pressure vessel and as such no one is obliged to carry them .
I agree it stinks and I'm no where near ever going to any event anywhere I'm just a paper puncher for fun as it were , but I did work for a courier company dealing with this type of problem on a daily basis .
I'd be interested to know what arrangements were in place for Olympics and commonwealth games , there may be a case for discrimination etc if Olympians have no problems but the common man does .

Only if that was the reason they were given (then why not simply empty them...would that have been ok?).

Otherwise, if no license is required it is simply a piece of sports equipment and I would go down the route of discrimination.

A club mate (and RFD) recently had his bank refuse to pay a bill for him for bullets imported.

The reason he was given by the "self delegated HO Representative" was that he may have been importing them for illegal purposes.

He put his various licenses on the counter and stated that he had already jumped though enough hoops for the right authorities to make his import perfectly legal, without the cashiers own personal restrictions and stated that he would be filing a complaint.

There after every request to see A, B C etc was not met (but was his right) so a small pile of complaints grew.

The problem (for the bank and cashier) was that my clubmate is in finance and knows the rules inside out. His father is a former head of KPMG, so he made a call to a friend in the industry which came back with a cheerful...."No worries X, its paid".

The cashier etc then wanted to know if the formal complaints would be lifted.

"not a chance" was the answer. As he pointed out, they were unlawful, discriminatory in nature (based on the feelings of the bank in question) and had he not been in the position he was in, the outcome would have been different.

Ouch.....but it needs doing or we will keep getting walked all over for perfectly lawful and wholesome activities.

I think the next time someone has a go at me for being a shooter I will ask them if they would have said that if I was black?

The effect is the same.

[Squirreler]

Mike Eveleigh is Senior Firearms Officer at BASC email:- mike.eveleigh@basc.org.uk

Cheers, Phil