Easyjet refuse Airrifle shooters for not having license...

[Sportsmatch]

Not still going though is it Gary?

Yes it is Rob just not in this country

[RobF]

Yes it is Rob just not in this country

Then I stand corrected I couldn't find any info on it after that...

2nd biggest then. HFT has had more entrants, FT had more applicants. Come Wales or England's turn we'll have a crack at the title

[Terry D]

Terry,

It wasn't a pop at those involved in the writing/production of magazines. I was just pointing out that IF an article was to appear in the magazines, it may be an exercise in futility.

Dan

Yes, Dan - we were both aware of that, mate, but I thought it needed pointing out that it was known that an article
wasn't the way to go, that's all.

[RobF]

Who said anything about an 'article in the airgun magazines' being the fix for this? Apart from one informing shooters taking guns abroad how best to avoid problems, of course that's not the way to go.

However, if I can collate information and bring it to the attention of those who CAN influence the proceedings, then 'the magazines' will have done their bit.

That's what I'm doing.

Once all the dust has settled, it might be a useful thing to have as an article. But I can't see it as a useful tool before we know the actual situation. This may have been oversight, misunderstanding, error, or least likely I'm reasoning a deliberate. That's why I've passed it to BASC and yourself because beyond making a bit of noise, and asking for some info which directly relates to a competition in Italy soon, I'm out of my depth.

However in the future, what an article may show is just how many companies are willing to support shooting abroad, how you can go about it, and what opportunities are out there. A round up of the laws in possible places may be worth a read for a few. France have relaxed their laws, and as the seagull flies they are 60 miles due South. Italy is a short air trip away. Spain and Portugal. All these countries and more have competitions in a number of disciplines they'd only be to happy to have visitors to. I for one have been to many places I probably never would have, with shooting as an excuse to have a wander around. And each and everyone I've been disappointed not to have spent more time in, shooting or not. So much planet, so little time.

[Steyr]

3 EFTA Team England shooters including current World Champion refused travel from London Standsted to Bilbao yesterday because they did not have licenses for their rifles which you cannot get licenses for because they don't need one.
These are target shooters representing England in an internationally recognised event.
What has changed, 5 trips with same people, airline and same destination for the past 5 years with no problems.
Will it be #noteasyjet or #easyjet for the future?

Anyone have Basc and the gta's phone numbers?

Approach the manufacturer and ask them to do a letter to the effect that the rifle they have made serial number abc123.... is a sub 12FPE air rifle and does not require a fire arms certificate.

Also speak to the HO of easy jet or whatever airline it is and ask to speak to their compliance officer re the transportation of sporting goods on their airline. Get it in writing and instruct any staff members that any queries have been dealt with and that you as a passenger are god to go. Any argument re this they need to speak to Mr X - compliance officer fro Ryan/Easyjet etc.

[RobF]

Approach the manufacturer and ask them to do a letter to the effect that the rifle they have made serial number abc123.... is a sub 12FPE air rifle and does not require a fire arms certificate.

Also speak to the HO of easy jet or whatever airline it is and ask to speak to their compliance officer re the transportation of sporting goods on their airline. Get it in writing and instruct any staff members that any queries have been dealt with and that you as a passenger are god to go. Any argument re this they need to speak to Mr X - compliance officer fro Ryan/Easyjet etc.

No1 we have done as routine. They did not accept it.

No2 they don't have to be compliant in anything but the law. Terms and conditions are their choice as long as they fit in with fairness and the regulations.

[Steyr]

It improves your chances especially if a senior compliance officer has stated it in writing. No its not a guarantee but if a senior officer within the airline has said yes - this is acceptable then there is less likelihood of an arsehole lower down copping the big "I AM" attitude.

[Parabuteo]

Simply because there is nothing in it for them. Why would they give a flying fig that airguns bought in the UK could not be taken abroad?

Well I would have thought that this was obvious.

It can really boost the profile of a company/marque if the rifle is shot in a winning (or national) team.

In the full bore comp world you often hear "I would have one if I knew of anyone doing well with one", shooters are often a bit like sheep. They don't like to change or try something different.

When a certain person won the world F/TR champs with Berger 155.5s and H4895 they flew off the shelves.

Positive PR sells so yes, I would think that alone would be incentive. As well as the fact that it is their livelihood they are looking after ultimately.

[Parabuteo]

No1 we have done as routine. They did not accept it.

No2 they don't have to be compliant in anything but the law. Terms and conditions are their choice as long as they fit in with fairness and the regulations.

But...Rob

Have they done it before or have they never done it? If they used to then precedence, if not why not?

Secondly, again, its discrimination.

Personally I would approach a pro shooting or sporting journo, see if a bit of anti airline publicity would help?

Only last night the BBC ran an article on a Scottish lass shooting in the commonwealth games. If she was going abroad....

You might even turn it on its head as positive press for the airline carrying the team.....few badges etc....just a thought.

[Parabuteo]

So basically they have decided not to carry non-fac airguns? That's their prerogative. They could insist that anyone flying with them has to wear a mankini if they so wanted - suck it up and move on I'm afraid.

Or we could just stand up for ourselves for a change.

Perhaps all shooters could boycott sleazy jet....or as I said, see if could be brought round to some positive PR. They are supposed to be easy jet, not "bloody awkward discriminatory jet" Maybe see what other airlines do?

I am sitting here watching a feature about a local trap shooter going to the CGs, 2 in 24hrs.

Never been a better time folks

[RobF]

But...Rob

Have they done it before or have they never done it? If they used to then precedence, if not why not?

Secondly, again, its discrimination.

Personally I would approach a pro shooting or sporting journo, see if a bit of anti airline publicity would help?

Only last night the BBC ran an article on a Scottish lass shooting in the commonwealth games. If she was going abroad....

You might even turn it on its head as positive press for the airline carrying the team.....few badges etc....just a thought.

They have done it before, the if not why not now is a question I've asked for comment back for publication.

As many have said, this is an opportunity to turn a disappointing situation around into good press. So we are hoping that a common sense approach will see its way through. There's nothing to suggest anti shooting since they will carry fac stuff. It's just we have fallen through a gap in the system it would seem.

[Rich]

Compliance is not about observing the law; if the company has a quality system with written processes and procedures, and most have, compliance is about complying with those documents. The relevance here is whether the underlings were complying with policy and procedures, and any non-compliance could be worth a bad tick at audit time. The compliance officer would like to know about these incidents in advance as surprises at audit time are generally not welcome.

[C.Eaton]

Just seems like this is the usual case of someone with zero knowledge in the airline check-in getting out of their depth then having managers etc. with the same level of ignorance digging in their heels as the arguments escalate.
It might just be a case that if the pressurised reservoirs were mentioned they then might class these as hazardous for the aircraft hold. I seem to remember asking BA for details on pre-charged carriage to the Florida Worlds years ago and they stated that they were more than happy to take the rifles as long as the reservoirs were shown to be empty.
There must be hundreds if not thousands of cases of pre-charged rifles and pistols being flown around Europe with the 10m paper punchers so it seems odd that they'd object now.
Going the NI route is just pandering to the idiots to be honest, this just needs clarification with EasyJet at the highest level and it will be sorted.

[KeithW]

Seems to me that it would be very useful if BASC could produce a clear statement on the issue, that all shooters (or maybe just BASC members?) can access and print off. The statement can then be sent by an individual (or team manager) to the appropriate airline prior to departure (probably a long time prior to departure!) with a request that they put in writing their agreement that such "pellet guns" may be legally transported and giving them the opportunity to make any provisos - such as air cylinders must be able to be demonstrated as empty.

Of course it would be even better if BASC could take up the issue directly with the appropriate airlines and get a clear statement from each one of them to accompany the document, both of which can be presented to any check-in jobsworth. Actually, that is a little bit unkind, you can understand check in staff who don't know about something "dangerous" erring on the side of caution.

The role of the magazines is surely to publicise the issue and promote the resolution, so that as many people as possible can be as well informed as possible.

[Brian.Samson]

I'm off out to New Zealand in 5 weeks time and this incident has spurred me to gather as much documentation as I can.

I must say a big thank you to Air Arms for their assistance.

I dropped them an email explaining where I was going and asked them if they could knock up a letter on headed paper to state that my 22 year old TX200 was originally manufactured as a sub 12fpe rifle.

They came back to me within a couple of hours with a stunner of a letter! If they didn't give a hoot they could have simply knocked up a letter quoting the statement I'd asked for, but they went way beyond that, looked up all the details of the competition I'm travelling to (FT World Championships) and investigated the legal requirements for exporting a springer to NZ (NZ Arms Act 1983) and wrote a very specific and personalised letter to accompany me that should silence even the most officious of jobsworth numpty in a heartbeat.

They sent me a scan of the letter straight away and put the original in the post to me.

Considering that they came back within a couple of hours and the amount of extra research they'd done to include in the letter they must have dropped everything and got on the case the moment my email hit their inbox.

Now when you consider that the rifle is 22 years old and I wasn't the original purchaser, a cynical person might wonder what was in it for them?

Excellent customer support (even for non-customers) and backup is something that impresses me, and it's no small coincidence that the companies that have learned this lesson are the very same companies that have managed to ride out our current economic crisis.

What's in it for them? A sound business decision and maybe, just maybe a company run by people who are passionate about air guns and need no other incentive than just helping out a fellow air gun shooter perhaps?

Whatever the reason, Thanks Air Arms