Reloading set up costs

[DesG]

Seeing that the LEE gear afficianodos are the first out of the starting blocks, i am going to say buy once buy right, that does not apply to LEE equipment.

TB.

I tend to buy cheap to see if I am going to make use of a new gadget (tools, whatever) before I buy expensive. With Lee I seldom find I need to subsequently buy expensive. About half their stuff is excellent. Their scales are crap, their dies are great. I easily get through a thousand .357s in a month. I reloaded the 250 I fired off this morning in about half an hour on my Lee progressive 1000 with no great effort. Yes, it needs careful attention as it does jam up at times, but then it's over 30 years old and cost a fraction of the price of its nearest rival. For a newcomer to reloading Lee makes for a cheap intro. When you know what you're doing you can buy better if you find the need. My RCBS bullet mould is much better quality than my Lee moulds, but I can buy 5 Lee molds for the same as 1 RCBS and they all make perfectly acceptable bullets.

[pothunter]

Seeing that the LEE gear afficianodos are the first out of the starting blocks, i am going to say buy once buy right, that does not apply to LEE equipment.

TB.

The ghost of Ackley arises

If you use Lee kit properly it is OK for hunting, but the collet neck sizing dies, compared to dies with a bushings and/or expander ball, produce very accurate ammunition with minimal run out in my rifles.

The cheap and cheerful thump it and chance it Lee Loader allows me to prat about at the range and make adjustments easily.
OK, it's not bench rest territory, but I can reload for the .222 with it and get .31" edge to edge 5 shot groups.
That is good enough to shoot any fox that I have ever encountered under the lamp.

[tacfoley]

My RFD suggested the 6.5 x 55 as a good 'bridge' calibre, as only slightly more muzzle energy than the .243 but also good for target work out to 1000 yards.

The 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6.5-284 certainly are good for the 1000 yard shoot...the 6.5 Grendel runs out at around 800 yards - none of them are usually found in a gun that you'd happily haul arund the countryside, unless you're built like Bigfoot.

I shoot a 6.5x55SE, and it ain't no 1000yard target rifle, that's for sure.

However, make up your own mind.

tac

[223AI]

that all sounds well thought out, just check out the .260 though and compare to the swedish. look on wiki.
Also this might help, put up a high seat on the small permission for the deer, that way you should have know worries with back stops,there is no better back stop than straight into the ground..

atb
tony

Cheers mate, will check out the .26 also and yes I have already purchased a high seat and identified the trees it will go against, the one thing the smaller perm has going for it (apart from more than its fair share of deer) is most of the Eastern boundary is a bank ranging from 3' to 6' so it does have some good back stops.

The 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6.5-284 certainly are good for the 1000 yard shoot...the 6.5 Grendel runs out at around 800 yards - none of them are usually found in a gun that you'd happily haul arund the countryside, unless you're built like Bigfoot.

I shoot a 6.5x55SE, and it ain't no 1000yard target rifle, that's for sure.

However, make up your own mind.

tac

Well nothing is down on paper yet so will crack on with the research before committing, might revert to a .308, if not it just gives me a reason for another rifle down the line

[dannywayoflife]

The 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6.5-284 certainly are good for the 1000 yard shoot...the 6.5 Grendel runs out at around 800 yards - none of them are usually found in a gun that you'd happily haul arund the countryside, unless you're built like Bigfoot.

I shoot a 6.5x55SE, and it ain't no 1000yard target rifle, that's for sure.

However, make up your own mind.

tac

Why ain't the 6.5x55 a 1000yd cal? When loaded properly to modern pressure levels it P###'s 1000! You have the boiler room and neck length to launch the heavy high bc bullets at 2600-2900 and still fit in the mag. Also the brass is lapuas cheapest brass!

Scott don't buy new buy second hand!!! I got the majority of my reloading kit for £80 scales, press, loading board, chamfer tool, primer cleaners etc same goes for dies keep he eyes open and buy second hand! If you do that you'll get a set up for £200 or there about's!

[Parabuteo]

Why ain't the 6.5x55 a 1000yd cal? When loaded properly to modern pressure levels it P###'s 1000! You have the boiler room and neck length to launch the heavy high bc bullets at 2600-2900 and still fit in the mag. Also the brass is lapuas cheapest brass!

Scott don't buy new buy second hand!!! I got the majority of my reloading kit for £80 scales, press, loading board, chamfer tool, primer cleaners etc same goes for dies keep he eyes open and buy second hand! If you do that you'll get a set up for £200 or there about's!

Hi Dan.

I don't get the comment re the calibre either mate.

Its not the cal, or just the round, but also the rifle. You know that a short barrelled .308 hunting rifle at 1000 is a waste of time against a long barrelled F/TR jobbie (seen it done, the bullets arrived sideways). If you arbitrarily but the same factory ammo in each the result would probably be the same. The cartridge is only part of the story, but with the right delivery system.

The 6.5 with the right bullet, the right load, and the right rifle, may well out perform a .308 (although a lot of F open use 7mm, I seem to remember Russell Simmonds did very well with is 6mm Dasher).

Then it bloody well should, if .308 was ideal at 1000 all the open effers would be using it

I agree to a point with second hand, but for the love of god don't buy unseen unless you know the person and can track them down and insert said item if its a dog.

Dies I would always buy new as they will be a known quantity (to a point) and wont have had cases stuck, scored necks etc.

Measuring kit likewise. All of mine is cleaned and boxed correctly. I depend on it to monitor the quality and health of my loading (and I am a right lazy git) so it needs to be of "A" quality and reliable.

As I am sure Danny would agree, there is sod all wrong with Lee as long as they are delivered in a good press (I don't know anything about their presses).

Some of the best shots stateside swear by lee collet dies. I went for a Forster press, but use their dies, RCBS, lee and even have a redding knocking about.

Lee is like anything else. An accomplished reloader may be able to dial out any inaccuracies with technique etc, or be able to identify an issue and get it fixed. A beginner may well not notice, but will probably notice the limitations.

My genuine advice would be to purchase new measuring kit, and possibly a new set of Lee Dies (RGD...Really good deal).

Possibly approach Dave Bonwick at the shooting shed for these, pay a bit extra, and get him to polish/check the insides for you.

Your brass will be the better for it. And keep the bloody things clean and free of carbon etc.

Personally, I would look for the best second hand press I could find. The RCBS ones are built like tanks, but you want one with minimum slop (The Forster Coax allows things to float, normal presses don't and you don't want them too to any extent).

I did start out new, it cost me an arm and a leg, but it was worth it. That said, I knew damned well what I was up against and it had to be the best I could afford for the job required.

Don't take the "You are only hunting" angle. Load the ammo to the optimum you can afford/achieve that gives the best result in your rifle.

In the rifle calibres the "cost" being used as a reason to hand load is less true (and often wrong) but the ability to tune the load for your rifle/purpose is the main selling point unless you are loading for obscure chamberings where the brass is rare or no longer available.

OH yea...and Dan's still a tight git

[Parabuteo]

nothing wrong with the 6.5x55, and likely to be easier to feed as you say, Bomag has a bit of experience with long range .243AI for target might be worth a PM, .308 is not overkill for small deer, and with the right bullet will do a surprisingly good job with little meat damage compared to some of the higher speed smaller calibres. The .223 is an ideal fox round and by all accounts with the right bullet will do the business on small deer for less powder then the .243 or 6.5x55.
don't worry too much about buying Lee stuff, it will load accurate ammo and thats all you need at the moment, if you later decide to go more up-market then you can always sell on the Lee, and it will cost you a hell of a lot less than some of the other brands (at this point you don't even know if you will continue reloading) somethings are worth getting , such as a balance scale, the Lee will work but is fiddly see what you can pick up second hand, the Lee length cutters are calibre specific and for .223,.243,.308,6.5x55 et al will be more than adequate, no need to break the bank at this stage, calipers can be bought very cheaply now, although there are always people who will advise you spend £200, although how many of them also spend on recalibration I don't know if you really want to just dip your feet then I would get a Lee hand press, they are awesome little devices and will be of use for years to come, I know some very finnicky reloaders who use them on the range to fine tune their rounds (you can use almost any make of die in them) none of the calibres you are looking at would cause a problem even full length resizing is easily done with them!
PS we take anyone in the BBS, you only have to look at the membership to see what I mean !

Sod off....

And my Mittu caliper cost me £50 through a mate off the bay

I have a hand loader, I have never used it but I will one day for the very reason you suggest (tuning COLs on the range).

[dannywayoflife]

Personally I don't see owt wrong with buying second hand dies mate. Many of mine are second hand and all produce ammo more accurate than I!

Like you say Chris is horses for courses. A short barrelled 308 ain't ever going to be competitive at 1000 other wise all you ftr bore would be using em! However it can be done! I've spoken to guys who can do 1000 with the 16" barrel on a dta srs covert like mine! It's never going to beat a long barrel rig but it's still possible. And looking at some if the speeds that guys are getting with the 175's in the 16" covert it's astonishing!!! I know guys can get 2550 fps out of them!!! That's scary fast for such a short barrel! hmmm. I wonder how fast mine are going as I'm .6 grains over book!

The hand presses are great I used one initially for neck sizing using the collet dies and they are great for that( wouldn't want to FL Size with it!! Lol I will now use it for tuning col at the range!

[223AI]

Why ain't the 6.5x55 a 1000yd cal? When loaded properly to modern pressure levels it P###'s 1000! You have the boiler room and neck length to launch the heavy high bc bullets at 2600-2900 and still fit in the mag. Also the brass is lapuas cheapest brass!

Scott don't buy new buy second hand!!! I got the majority of my reloading kit for £80 scales, press, loading board, chamfer tool, primer cleaners etc same goes for dies keep he eyes open and buy second hand! If you do that you'll get a set up for £200 or there about's!

I thought that's what you'd said mate, as for the 1000 yard question I don't know if I'll even be able to shoot out to that range, the longest I've shot was the mcqueens at the June meet, so I might be the weak link let alone the round/load/rifle

[Parabuteo]

Personally I don't see owt wrong with buying second hand dies mate. Many of mine are second hand and all produce ammo more accurate than I!

Like you say Chris is horses for courses. A short barrelled 308 ain't ever going to be competitive at 1000 other wise all you ftr bore would be using em! However it can be done! I've spoken to guys who can do 1000 with the 16" barrel on a dta srs covert like mine! It's never going to beat a long barrel rig but it's still possible. And looking at some if the speeds that guys are getting with the 175's in the 16" covert it's astonishing!!! I know guys can get 2550 fps out of them!!! That's scary fast for such a short barrel! hmmm. I wonder how fast mine are going as I'm .6 grains over book!

The hand presses are great I used one initially for neck sizing using the collet dies and they are great for that( wouldn't want to FL Size with it!! Lol I will now use it for tuning col at the range!

WIND IT IN

That said you may be right, got the Elcan at the weekend, just need a decent AR to bung it on (I have started my poking about for parts etc....I have plenty of time) Then I can really embarrass myself

Had enough of the arms race mate so I am going to do the odd league shoot when I fell like it and enjoy the shooting again

[dingdong]

Save up and buy the best it pays in the end.
atb
Ray

[bewsh]

I guarantee you I can load more accurate ammunition with a lee loader, scoops and few case tools than a total newbie with all the competition gear and no idea. (not suggesting that is you BTW! )

get the basic stuff right first
you are reloading for cost and >MOA accuracy
NOT benchrest competition and >0.2 MOA accuracy

you do not need a set of digital scales, beam scales or heaven forbid...scoops (every factory load to you have shot to date is charged the same way....by volume. people don't like them because that can't use the properly and throw consistent loads. its very easy to learn)
you do not need vernier equipped carbide competition dies (I have seen some shocking and frankly dangerous FL sizing by some new starters!)
you do not need a neck reamer, bench mounted case trimmer, primer pocket uniformer, flash hole deburrer, cod piece expander.....
you don't even need a set of calipers but a set of dial calipers is pennies in the grand scheme of things

learn the basics and keep it safe and repeatable.
It truly is not rocket science but there are an awful lot of people who make a living out of selling a NASA laboratory of equipment to people with a dream.

Any press will do you - they rarely break (saying that I went 2 years without a press, only bought one as my lee loader mallet was waking people up!)
Any dies will do you - 2nd hand or not. - personally I neck size using Lee Collet dies, only FL size when I have to (save brass work hardening), I have other brands.

Get basic case prep tools:
in/out chamfer, primer pocket cleaner, Lee max length trimmer (you are doing this for safety not for bench rest accuracy), couple of calibre specific nylon/bronze brushes for cleaning and/or lube.

get some quality brass, it will last longer, be more repeatable and just plain work better

Read every FAQ on the actual process - don't just regurgitate it, learn why the processes are done that way.

KISS
KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!

as usual calibre debates on what can be done with what and what distance is irrelevant
if 308 and 223 can be shot well at a 1000yds in the right hand then a 6.5x55, and arguably anything can!