Can the police remove your rifles without good reason?

[JohnBam]

Asking this due to an incident I heard recentlly and wondered how I stand in this situation.

I sometimes plink with my air pistol in the back garden, adequate back stop and shoot from 10 feet inside my kitchen to ensure noise is low as possible and the pistol is not actually outside. If a neighbour were to complain about this and old Bill came a knockling, can they legally remove my air rifles/pistols for power testing without good reason ie no incident and just a nosey neighbour complaint?

I chrono my rifles regualarly and know they are within the legal limit, but would rather know where I would stand in this situation, rather than lose my property for a few months while they test.

Bottom line, can I refuse the police entry on such a complaint or refuse to let them take my property?

Thanks

[Nikkormat]

BASC document on police right of entry and firearms seizures. Scroll down to the first downloadable document.

Matt

[rogb]

http://basc.org.uk/wp-content/plugin...oad.php?id=133

Thanks for the link and to BASC for putting it together.
IMO an essential document to print off and keep in the gun cabinet.

[Turnup]

An interesting question, and an interesting answer, which has prompted in me the following thought:

It seems to me that in many areas the police will issue a request in such a way as to give the impression that they are issuing an instruction. It can be quite difficult to ascertain from them which it is in a non-confrontational way, and most people are unwilling to be directly challenging (which is why such requests are made in the first place).

A friend of my son was stopped late at night by police vehicle only a few days ago. He was driving a small van. The officer opened with "It's OK, you are not in trouble - we are stopping all vans in the area in response to a spate of burglaries - can we look in the back?" He was happy to comply and was then let on his way, but what of the legalities here?

I believe that a driver is required to stop if instructed to do so by a uniformed officer.

In the case above, did the officer have reasonable grounds for such a stop? I believe that his statement indicates that the stop was a matter of local policy and therefore he did not have reasonable grounds for suspicion. What if the driver had then refused to allow inspection inside the van?

[Geoff555]

Hi, it can be a difficult situation sometimes, my son works as a bus driver and finishes about 1.30 - 2am. when driving home he gets stopped regularly ( 4 times a week on adverage.) where are you going, what are you doing and once stopped because he was driving 'slowly', that is actually driving below the 30 mph limit and stopped because his car was 'noisy' , he had to explain that it was normal because it was a Diesel.
He tries to be reasonable but lost his temper once and got an apology when stopped 3 times in his 6 mile journey home.
The' If you have done nothing wrong' thing wears a bit thin sometimes.
Cheers.
Geoff.

[Heidi]

To Clarify

Any Police Officer uniformed or otherwise can stop any vehicle provided he/she announces they are a Police Officer and most importantly produces their Warrant Card and then tells you why they have stopped you ie under the necessary sections of the Police And Criminal Evidence Act or Road Traffic Act

[DJP]

...Bottom line, can I refuse the police entry on such a complaint or refuse to let them take my property?

Thanks

In a word, yes.

Police only have a right of entry in certain circumstances, basically: With a Search Warrant or without a warrant in order to effect an arrest, prevent a Breach of the Peace or to save life and limb.

Other than that, police are on your premises at your invitation (which can be withdrawn at any time). So, if you're uncomfortable with the situation, speak to the police on the doorstep and don't invite them in.

There are various powers of seizure but generally they require the police to believe that an offence has taken place and that the item is evidence of that offence. Of course, if the police suspect an offence then the correct course of action is for them to arrest you for it before any property is seized. Generally, if they don't have enough grounds to arrest, then they don't have enough grounds to seize property.

There is no power to go on a “Fishing expedition” and seize guns for testing, “routine checks” or whatever.

Caveat: This is a brief summary of the law as it applies to England & Wales. I note that the OP is from Scotland and I have no idea if the law is the same North of the border.

[DJP]

...It seems to me that in many areas the police will issue a request in such a way as to give the impression that they are issuing an instruction. It can be quite difficult to ascertain from them which it is in a non-confrontational way, and most people are unwilling to be directly challenging (which is why such requests are made in the first place)...

This^^.

If in doubt, ask if they're exercising a power and, if so, which one.

If not, then your participation is strictly voluntary.

[basa]

To Clarify

Any Police Officer uniformed or otherwise can stop any vehicle provided he/she announces they are a Police Officer and most importantly produces their Warrant Card and then tells you why they have stopped you ie under the necessary sections of the Police And Criminal Evidence Act or Road Traffic Act

AN ACT does not mean it's law/lawfull.

[leeben]

Without a warrant NEVER invite the law into your house EVER! If you invite them in the law states they can exercise the same powers as having a warrant because you allowed them to do so.

[Lakey]

I thought that police have automatic right of entry into your house (ie without a search warrant) if you hold a firearms certificate, and you keep firearms on the premises? is this true?

Sorry to hijack your thread slightly, but it is related to your original post

Cheers

Lakey

[leeben]

I thought that police have automatic right of entry into your house (ie without a search warrant) if you hold a firearms certificate, and you keep firearms on the premises? is this true?

Sorry to hijack your thread slightly, but it is related to your original post

Cheers

Lakey

Only if they have reason to believe they will be used for criminal intent.

[Quare Fellow]

In a word, yes.

Police only have a right of entry in certain circumstances, basically: With a Search Warrant or without a warrant in order to effect an arrest, prevent a Breach of the Peace or to save life and limb.

IIRC, a power of entry to effect an arrest now only applies in respect of indictable offences. I may be wrong, but I think that is one of the changes made in or around the time that the powers of arrest were changed.

[Brian.Samson]

AN ACT does not mean it's law/lawfull.

They are Act's of Law

[JohnBam]

Thanks for the very informative replies. I have passed this on to the person concerned and indeed looks like they have entered his property without proper cause and seized his rifles for inspection for no other reason than that they were there.

I will keep you posted on any resolution to it.

Thanks again chaps.