Baikal MAKAROV MP-654K GEN 5 PISTOL

[PALADIN]

Received this AM

I am writing further to my email dated 20/08/14 regarding the Special Delivery Guaranteed item, reference number ZV592550787GB, which you posted on 23/07/14.
I have checked our records and can confirm your parcel contained a prohibited item. Royal Mail has controls in place to stop dangerous or prohibited goods entering our network including the x-ray screening of mail and the examination of any contents identified under this screening as “suspect”.
On this occasion the C02 cannister in gun,although empty,it was in situ to keep a seal in place as you later stated, was sent in breach of the dangerous goods transport regulations. We have therefore disposed of the parcel accordingly. If you have not received one already, you will receive a letter from Royal Mail explaining this.
Where we can clearly demonstrate non-compliance (such as in this instance), we will always dispose of items. No compensation will be paid in respect of the item disposed of nor are we liable for any loss suffered by the sender or recipient. We are also not liable for any postage refund as the parcel contained a prohibited item and should not have been sent.
More information on the types of items which are prohibited in the post for legal or safety reasons can be found at www.royalmail.com/prohibitedgoods.
I am very sorry the tracking information does not make this clear and I fully appreciate this is not only inconvenient but frustrating too. As previously stated, we are currently in the process of updating the messages that appear on our tracking system to ensure customers understand what is happening to their parcels.
I hope my explanation has clarified what has happened to your parcel on this occasion. If I can be of any further assistance though, please let me know.
Regards
Janet Turner
Royal Mail Customer Services


Bit of a heads up to all here,not even empty co2 permissable!
Will be chasing this legally through various channels so will keep undated on this,
chances are no hope or Bob Hope,but won't give up easily..

ATB
Pete

[little duck]

Anyone know how the items are 'disposed' of? Are they destroyed melted down or sent somewhere and sold. I would ask for evidence of the disposal if it was me!

[zanes]

My understanding was that the ONLY way to send airguns now through royal mail is parcelforce 48 express.

Could it be there are two issues here- presence of an empty CO2 cartridge and/or using the wrong service?

You've got no hope legally, please don't spend money on it.

[flatrajectory]

My understanding was that the ONLY way to send airguns now through royal mail is parcelforce 48 express.

Could it be there are two issues here- presence of an empty CO2 cartridge and/or using the wrong service?

You've got no hope legally, please don't spend money on it.

Actually Pete has got hope. The restricted item was the co2 capsule NOT the pistol it was in, therefore RM cannot legally destroy the pistol ...only the co2 capsule. He should seek legal representation and 'ought' to get compensation for the pistol,which is not a resrticted item.
Pete.

[zanes]

Actually Pete has got hope. The restricted item was the co2 capsule NOT the pistol it was in, therefore RM cannot legally destroy the pistol ...only the co2 capsule. He should seek legal representation and 'ought' to get compensation for the pistol,which is not a resrticted item.
Pete.

Interesting thought- but I bet royalmail have it sewn up legally. I also bet "legal representation" will cost far more and cause more hassle than the Mak is worth.

It also seems that there is a bit of a grey area regarding RMSD and air pistols at the moment (according to the for sale section sticky)- PF48 is definitely OK but RMSD is more questionable.

[droid]

Received this AM

I am writing further to my email dated 20/08/14 regarding the Special Delivery Guaranteed item, reference number ZV592550787GB, which you posted on 23/07/14.
I have checked our records and can confirm your parcel contained a prohibited item. Royal Mail has controls in place to stop dangerous or prohibited goods entering our network including the x-ray screening of mail and the examination of any contents identified under this screening as “suspect”.
On this occasion the C02 cannister in gun,although empty,it was in situ to keep a seal in place as you later stated, was sent in breach of the dangerous goods transport regulations. We have therefore disposed of the parcel accordingly. If you have not received one already, you will receive a letter from Royal Mail explaining this.
Where we can clearly demonstrate non-compliance (such as in this instance), we will always dispose of items. No compensation will be paid in respect of the item disposed of nor are we liable for any loss suffered by the sender or recipient. We are also not liable for any postage refund as the parcel contained a prohibited item and should not have been sent.
More information on the types of items which are prohibited in the post for legal or safety reasons can be found at www.royalmail.com/prohibitedgoods.
I am very sorry the tracking information does not make this clear and I fully appreciate this is not only inconvenient but frustrating too. As previously stated, we are currently in the process of updating the messages that appear on our tracking system to ensure customers understand what is happening to their parcels.
I hope my explanation has clarified what has happened to your parcel on this occasion. If I can be of any further assistance though, please let me know.
Regards
Janet Turner
Royal Mail Customer Services


Bit of a heads up to all here,not even empty co2 permissable!
Will be chasing this legally through various channels so will keep undated on this,
chances are no hope or Bob Hope,but won't give up easily..

ATB
Pete

I got one been pulled now, one off custom pistol valuable and irreplaceable.

I know I emptied it of CO2 but can I for the life of me remember taking the empty cart out ! I know I should have done.

I just hope I have that's all.

[short-carabine]

Bit of a heads up to all here,not even empty co2 permissable!
Will be chasing this legally through various channels so will keep undated on this,
chances are no hope or Bob Hope,but won't give up easily..

ATB
Pete[/SIZE]

I'm no expert, but does the absence of gas (which appears to be the prohibition) not render the prohibition invalid? An empty CO2 bulb is simply a piece of metal. Surely the prohibition applies to the content? This might be your angle...

[steeleye]

As I have been very patient about this, I think is it time to get my £125 refunded. As you deliberately left the empty co2 in.

[PALADIN]

As I have been very patient about this, I think is it time to get my £125 refunded. As you deliberately left the empty co2 in.

Presently chasing RM for compensation as they are in error with this,
gun itself should have been sent on,
magazine with empty co2 was error.

Will keep in touch,

Pete

[steeleye]

Presently chasing RM for compensation as they are in error with this,
gun itself should have been sent on,
magazine with empty co2 was error.

Will keep in touch,

Pete

So Pete the RM STATES that they do not give compensation, so it is up to you to refund. Don't you think I have waited long enough and been very patient!

[PALADIN]

So Pete the RM STATES that they do not give compensation, so it is up to you to refund. Don't you think I have waited long enough and been very patient!

Actually couldn't give a flying fig what RM say, if I think I'm correct I WILL chase them,

Will sort out a refund to you as soon as,so don't panic,a little longer won't hurt,as I'll be the one losing out.... probably !

Will be in touch soon,

Pete

[droid]

I'm no expert, but does the absence of gas (which appears to be the prohibition) not render the prohibition invalid? An empty CO2 bulb is simply a piece of metal. Surely the prohibition applies to the content? This might be your angle...

I think the same, an empty CO2 cart has a big hole in the end so cannot possible be deemed a pressure vessel.

[PALADIN]

Lots of arguments going back and forth to RM,

but generally think they've covered their a**es by not allowing full .....or empty! cylinders
You'd like to think that common sense would prevail as cylinder has ruddy great hole in the end,
but we're talking about Royal Mail!!!

but will keep trying.......I do seem twixt a rock and a hard place though


Will sort it out later as I do seem a little at fault...although unknowingly.....lessons learned for all

ATB2ALL
Pete

[Aimstraight]

I'm no expert, but does the absence of gas (which appears to be the prohibition) not render the prohibition invalid? An empty CO2 bulb is simply a piece of metal. Surely the prohibition applies to the content? This might be your angle...

I fully understand that logical argument. However leaflet RMDG1A (Dangerous Goods), Valid from 15th July 2013, states you cannot send:

Gases, including flammable, non-flammable, toxic and compressed gases (including new and used gas cylinders, butane, ethane, propane, refills for lighters, fire extinguishers and scuba tanks).

So the issue seems to be related equally to the container as to what, if anything is inside. I guess they do not want to get into whether or not something is full or empty.

The examples qouted (gas cylinder/scuba tank) typically have a stop valve so they can not be certain they not pressurised; hence the ban. An empty CO2 bulb with a hole in the end is not really an issue, however are they expected to dissasemble ever such gun they find to determine this? I guess that would be too much of an overhead which they can do without.

Given that they acknowledged that it was empty, it seems harsh to scrap the whole package.

[flatrajectory]

Royal Fail do not want to carry guns of any sort or associated items, but they were TOLD by the industry regulator a few years ago that they had to carry guns.
This method of getting rid of guns and p***ing off shooters by destroying them if you do not follow their rules is their way of getting back at both us and the regulator.
I am still amazed after all the posts on this subject that folks are still getting it wrong.
Here are the facts...
RM will not carry any kind of pressure vesell,empty or not. This includes co2 canisters,pcp air cylinders, airsoft gas blowback magazines etc. They will not carry airguns of any kind...not even by rmsd if you read the small print.
The only accredited way to send guns and related items is by Parcelforce express 48, and this method only, or a courier ...but check with them first as a lot do not carry guns ( knowingly).

Please don't tell me that you can send guns by rmsd, I know different, it's at your risk if you do.
RM also have a policy of dis-information ,just to get us even more confused.
Face to face is your only way unless you are willing to take a hit if it goes pear shaped.
Pete.