Remington Express

[Ouch!]

It can only be good for our sport / hobby that these Chinese rifles are starting to be as good as, or in some cases better than, the other mainstream manufacturers.
A bit of keen competition will benefit us all and maybe push some existing manufacturers to do better with their prices or the quality of their products.

I've yet to see a remington express, but I've watched some of the YouTube reviews and they have all been positive, especially for a rifle in the £150 price point.

Ouch!

[mrto]

The Remington Express is not the same rifle as the SMK XS20. The XS20 is a copy of the HW95, the Express is based on some of the Weihrauch designs but is not a copy of any Weihrauchs. They are a very accurate rifle that can out shoot guns that are twice the price.Take a look at the ARC Remington AR1 on the Airgun Shooter on line magazine, this rifle was tested by a well known shooter that was well known in field target shooting . He said it was one of the most accurate spring rifle he had fired.

Thanks,I enjoyed the review.

ATB.

[gingernut]

Mine continues to impress apart from the smelly rubber butt pad.
Still at least I know where it is.
Make up your own jokes.

[DM80]

great gun well made and accurate amazing when tuned its as good as rifles costing twice as much inc the german ones.

dave.

[DJP]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but I remain sceptical about Chinese airguns.

A few years back, I bought the much vaunted SMK XS20 – purely out of curiosity. And, out of the box, it appeared very good: Consistent power and, yes, accuracy at 25m was as good as my HW95.

But it didn't last. After a few hundred shots the initial accuracy went to pot and it started spraying pellets all over the target.

It transpired that the barrel latch pins weren't properly hardened and had worn within a few hundred shots – causing the lock up to go sloppy. This was a known issue, well documented on the US forums.

So while the Chinese make guns that superficially appear well made, in my experience, the bits that you can't see aren't always up to snuff.

It's also worth remembering that these aren't really £150 rifles. They're 150 dollar rifles (ie about £90) and for that price corners are going to be cut somewhere.

As good as the Germans? Dream on.

Still, you pay your money etc.

[Rob M]

It can only be good for our sport / hobby that these Chinese rifles are starting to be as good as, or in some cases better than, the other mainstream manufacturers.
A bit of keen competition will benefit us all and maybe push some existing manufacturers to do better with their prices or the quality of their products.
Ouch!

I'd question that... It's true that the chinese can turn out quality if they want to, but I don't see why it's good for our sport. It's certainly bad for us in the west in the long run.

The fact is, that in their scramble to earn or take money from the west, the chinese are prepared to sacrifice their environment, their workers and their morals. They rip off western designs, they manufacture products using dirty and polluting methods, and dispose of their industrial waste without consideration for the environment. They pollute their rivers, land and air so that they can undercut western manufacturers making the same products. Their workers have to work without adequate "health and Safety" measures to save their employers money. Most chinese factories probably don't even have insurance to assist people that get injured at work. They generate power for their factories from dirty but cheap coal-fired power stations that pollute the environment and they don't give a toss as long as they're undercutting western firms and taking over markets.

Western manufacturers, on the other hand, have to manufacture their products and dispose of their waste in ways that don't damage the environment, often paying high prices to do so. They have to invest in research and design to create new products that don't infringe other people's patents and intellectual property. They have to pay through the nose for electricity that's generated in more expensive but less polluting ways than those the chinese use. They have to have insurance in case their workers get injured, provide them with safety equipment, training and safe workplaces, which the chinese don't. They have to pay taxes to our greedy and incompetent governments. Hardly a level playing field, is it?

It annoys the hell out of me when people think it's great that the chinese are able to turn out products better and cheaper than we can in the west. The fact is that our manufacturers are seriously disadvantaged and it's not surprising that they are finding it hard to compete with the chinese. As someone above said, our houses are full of chinese-made stuff these days, and it's true. If you want, for instance a part for your computer, an alarm clock, a calculator or a myriad other things, you have to buy chinese as we can't make those things in the west any more. Our manufacturers gave up because they couldn't compete. With airguns though you still have a choice, you can still buy airguns that are made in Britain, and Europe.

But if we all start buying chinese airguns, how much longer will you be able to? In the long run it makes more sense to buy products made in your home country, even if they're more expensive than chinese-made copies.

[TonyL]

Got to agree with the above two posts.

[Ouch!]

Many of these arguments were made about Japanese motorcycles as they emerged in the 1950's & 1960's.
First of all, they were copying UK & European designs and they were considered to be cheap knock-offs.

Then; when they made improvements and introduced innovations, the arguments were made that they were undercutting British & European workers and the UK motorcycle industry, buried their heads in the sand. Japanese bikes became faster, cheaper, and better equipped than any of the older UK manufacturers could manage.

I'm sure, if this had not all happened before 'green issues' were popular, Japanese manufacturers would have been blamed for pollution & lack of Health & Safety for the workers etc.
Now, hardly anybody can argue that they make some of the best and most innovative motorcycles in the world.

Perhaps the Chinese are undergoing their own evolution and in 10 years we will be buying Chinese engineering. If they can push the air rifle manufacturers to do better, I still think it will be good for our sport.
BSA, Air Arms, Brocock, Weihrauch & Daystate will need to innovate to stay ahead of the game. I don't want them to go the way of Norton, Velocette, BSA etc etc etc.....

Ouch!

[elewis411]

Many of these arguments were made about Japanese motorcycles as they emerged in the 1950's & 1960's.
First of all, they were copying UK & European designs and they were considered to be cheap knock-offs.

Then; when they made improvements and introduced innovations, the arguments were made that they were undercutting British & European workers and the UK motorcycle industry, buried their heads in the sand. Japanese bikes became faster, cheaper, and better equipped than any of the older UK manufacturers could manage.

I'm sure, if this had not all happened before 'green issues' were popular, Japanese manufacturers would have been blamed for pollution & lack of Health & Safety for the workers etc.
Now, hardly anybody can argue that they make some of the best and most innovative motorcycles in the world.

Perhaps the Chinese are undergoing their own evolution and in 10 years we will be buying Chinese engineering. If they can push the air rifle manufacturers to do better, I still think it will be good for our sport.
BSA, Air Arms, Brocock, Weihrauch & Daystate will need to innovate to stay ahead of the game. I don't want them to go the way of Norton, Velocette, BSA etc etc etc.....

Ouch!

Excellent post, it's high time the established brands had some proper competition, weihrauch and the rest have been standing still for far too long and also imo letting their quality control slip while putting their prices up at the same time. My friend has a remington express and i dont know how they can make and sell the rifle at the price they do, or maybe we have been ripped off for so long by the established brands that we no longer see a bargain when we see one. I have been spoilt in the past with top end springers with v-glide kits etc so i know a good rifle and the remington is well made and very usable for a price that puts the normal so called quality brands to shame...

[Arthur John Smithsplease]

The Japanese had been receptive to western ideas and technology as early as the late nineteenth century.

Their Zero fighter of the Second World War as an excellent aircraft, and they had built a huge navy. The poor quality of some of their early post-war products was largely because their economy needed to be completely rebuilt. The same was true, but to a lesser extent, in Germany.

[oliver13]

The Chinese are capable of turning out stuff as good as anybodies, but they always have a client QC team looking over their shoulders when they do. In the case of Remington I would expect them to be very jealous of their name so are keeping a close eye on things, but otherwise I'm very wary of Chinese stuff.

Generally thogh, it's cheap enough to buy 2, one for use & one for spares...

[richardscar]

we all love the Chinese really ... banquet B for three people please , yummy

[Rob M]

i dont know how they can make and sell the rifle at the price they do...

I've explained that above, you can turn anything out cheap if you're ripping off someone else's research and design, and your factory gets cheap electricity because your government doesn't give a toss for the environment, or give a toss when you dump industrial waste in the nearest river.

It's not a level playing field at all, yet you accuse British and European manufacturers of ripping us off. Does it not occur to you that they might be doing the best they can under difficult circumstances?

What do you fans of Chinese stuff think will happen when we have no industry whatsoever left in the west because it's all gone to China?

[TonyL]

I've explained that above, you can turn anything out cheap if you're ripping off someone else's research and design, and your factory gets cheap electricity because your government doesn't give a toss for the environment, or give a toss when you dump industrial waste in the nearest river.

It's not a level playing field at all, yet you accuse British and European manufacturers of ripping us off. Does it not occur to you that they might be doing the best they can under difficult circumstances?

What do you fans of Chinese stuff think will happen when we have no industry whatsoever left in the west because it's all gone to China?

Agreed.

And factor in the sheer numbers involved and economies of scale and low wages.

In some cases, poor grade materials too? Witness the oft reported soft barrels on some of them (SMK208)?

[elewis411]

I've explained that above, you can turn anything out cheap if you're ripping off someone else's research and design, and your factory gets cheap electricity because your government doesn't give a toss for the environment, or give a toss when you dump industrial waste in the nearest river.

It's not a level playing field at all, yet you accuse British and European manufacturers of ripping us off. Does it not occur to you that they might be doing the best they can under difficult circumstances?

What do you fans of Chinese stuff think will happen when we have no industry whatsoever left in the west because it's all gone to China?

Who said i'm a fan of chinese stuff, what i do know is that the remington is superb value for money. At the end of the day, if the british and european manufacturers cant cut costs or their profit margins and pass the savings on to us then they will probably go tit's up, i do think were being ripped off by weihrauch/diana/bsa/air arms etc etc and while it's up to me i would buy a remington before being ripped off for a 3-4x priced rifle which is no better every day of the week...