Reply With QuoteThats one of my dream airguns when ( who am I kidding) win the euro millionswell i can dream cant I,, thanks for the links and pics, most appreciated Sir.
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Finally got a copy of the Italian magazine Diana Armi that has an article on the Girandoni at Hadrian’s Mausoleum in Rome. Written in 1980, with only the problematic Fred Baer article on the subject as reference, the text is not particularly helpful from a history standpoint, but, the air gun is fascinating. It is what I call a Girandoni type 2. It is an updated version of the Girandoni seen in Baker/Currie and on the Beeman website. The distinctive external latch guide screw (the one behind the trigger) is not presence. Instead the front trigger guard retaining screw now serves that function. The Latch is elongated in front to reach the retaining screw. This makes the installation of a decocking button more practical, too. Most interesting maybe that the main spring is now a V-spring instead of a leaf spring. I've seen a few of these before but had no idea what was going on inside, because the internals have never been revealed... that is until now.
https://flic.kr/p/p6FhGw
https://flic.kr/p/oRe3me
https://flic.kr/p/p8rPWr
https://flic.kr/p/p6Fgem
https://flic.kr/p/oRe24L
https://flic.kr/p/oRdYTd
I love the engraving see on page 2. This is a rabbit gun!
The author makes the comments that 11mm caliber is for rabbits, 13mm caliber is for deer. Of course, being written in 1980, he never got the memo from Baker/Currie/Beeman that the Austrian Military Repeater Air Rifle, contrary to all previously written history, was now a 11mm gun instead of 13mm. Sort of makes one wonder why the Habsburg Monarch was so determined to get a bunch of rabbit guns for their soldiers to use against the Turks?
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Thats one of my dream airguns when ( who am I kidding) win the euro millions
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Hi many thanks for the photos of a rifle l would love to own, but never will.
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Because having skirmishers firing 11mm balls at their targets at a rate of 5-10x that of their musket armed opponents makes for a very effective method of holding regiments of men in place for you to make your order of battle around or smash to bits with cannon from a distance.....Regardless of the actual lethality of the projectiles themselves, being able to rattle shots in amongst the ranks at a high rate would rattle the command.Originally Posted by DT Fletcher
Compare that with the British 95th Rifles (et al) in the Penninsula who did sterling work, but their Baker rifle took a whole minute to load, and a wily opponent could beat them back with the 3 rounds-a-minute of musketry, if well drilled
You've got to remember: this is when the only people who fired their muskets before the battle (and drilled with live powder) were the British Army- and even they could expect less than 30% of their shots to be effective when firing their 3 rounds a minute benchmark against a massed bank of enemy soldiery at 50 yards. (that's from 18th century testing on the subject)....Most other nations managed a much lower rate of fire and even poorer accuracy.
The screen of skirmishers in front of your big battallions acted as harrassment- no military commander of the day considered individual accuracy or small unit tactics to be anything but a sideshow to the main event: Advancement by column to smash through the line or massed bayonet charge after fire by volleys
Nothing in his pockets except knives and lint.
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No doubt, getting pelted with an 11mm rabbit gun would be annoying. Getting the same from a 13mm deer gun would be deadly.
At the time, the Austrian infantry musket was 18.3mm, so even a 13mm gun was considered to be small caliber.
From the history of the 34th Regiment (Geschichte des K.und K.Infanterie-Regimentes Nr. 34)
in which the author is using the original 1788 daily reports as his source.
(Regiment in Semlin-Zuman-
To give some information about the activity and use of the regiment the following extract from the Supervising Command journals (K. A. 1788, H. A. 13 54.))
. . noch 14 Windbüchsen und für jede Büchse 2 Pfund Blei, aus denen 80 Kugeln gegossen werden können.
"May 6. Each infantry regiment still gets 14 airguns and for each gun 2 pounds of lead, of which 80 balls can be poured."
From the Encyclopaedia of scientific units, weights, and measures: 1 pfund = 1.2348 US pounds.
To calculate the gauge: 40/1.2348 = 32.39 gauge. 32 gauge = 13.97 grams /.49 ounces equates to 13.3 mm / 0.524"
The best independent evidence describes the Austrian military repeater air gun as 13mm caliber. It's not until Baker/Currie/Beeman that 11mm was even suggested. And their pronouncement was no doubt influenced by the fact that they had already decided that their gun in-hand had to be a military model.
I just like to point out that the Baker/Currie/Beeman decree stands on pretty shakey grounds. There is solid evidence for 13mm and an even more solid rational for 13mm over 11mm when going to war with an air gun. You're not hunting rabbits on the battleground.
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I don't 'have a dog in the fight' on the 11mm vs 13mm debate on these- I was just elucidating the tactical use for a less than promising (ballisitically speaking) gun with a rapid fire capacity in the days of volley fire and 3-rounds-a-minute at best
Nothing in his pockets except knives and lint.
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I knew that but was continuing on with my original thought about calibers.I don't 'have a dog in the fight' on the 11mm vs 13mm debate on these- I was just elucidating the tactical use for a less than promising (ballisitically speaking) gun with a rapid fire capacity in the days of volley fire and 3-rounds-a-minute at best
Regarding tactical use, the Girandoni was not really used in the traditional line warfare of the times. During the first year, 1788, it was intended to be used that way - with each battalion equipped with air guns- but during that campaign year there wasn't much in the way of line warfare. After that year, where the air gun was used and appreciated was in the, so called, small war activities. In particular, night attacks. In fact the first and last recorded planned uses of the Girandoni was in surprise night attacks. All of which were never actually executed due to other factors.
The Austrians, in particular Joseph II, were keen to develop a "Geschwindschießens" - fast as the wind shooter - and there were other rapid firing models developed during Joseph's command of the Army all of which ultimately failed in the field, usually due to exploding guns. The Girandoni, with more than 20 years service, was actually the most successful of the Geschwindschießens. The best (only?) reference on this is Dolleczek.
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