7.5 K31 loads

[thibben]

Gents,

Any suggestions as good starting points for this combination?

Privi brass and bullets to hand, would go for N140 but open to suggestions.

Thanks

[Mike95]

At 50 yards for a plinking load, 6gns of Red Dot with a 150gn loverin type cast bullet.......half inch groups. Any fast pistol powder will do, Green Dot, Bullseye..6-7 gns... For 100 yards, 150-190 gn cast bullet, 14 gns of 4198, any other fast rifle powder. For Bisley, 200 yards and FMJ I usually use 3031, 32 gns...a very mild, accurate load. Re 7 also good.... N140 has a very good reputation and Vit reloading data is online.

Dodgy Rog has the 190gn NOE k31 cast bullet mould, made especially to fit the k31 bore. Hard cast and GC, Rog shoots them at 600 yards, I understand.

My home range does not allow FMJ so I have experimented with a number of cast bullet types...problem is getting them to chamber in the very tight bore with practically no lead in to the rifling.
You will have no problems with the PPU FMJ bullets.

Mike95

[thibben]

Mike,

thanks for that - did not think about cast! good idea for short range.

T

[tacfoley]

Hey, talk to me, you guys! I've been shooting Swiss since a school vacation in the early 1960's, and I'm always happy to talk Swiss to anybody I can get to listen.

I have a 1954 K31, a 1914 K11 and a K31-actioned 300m target rifle in .308Win. I also have both early and later [new] diopter sights, and a scope mount - all from Swiss Products in Kallispel Montana.

I've been a writer and poster on Swiss schtuff on www.swissrifles.com for many years, and a reloader since the unfortunately huge ammunition price hike here in UK made GP11 more expensive than PPU factory stuff, which is, incidentally 200-250fps slower than GP11.

Best

tac

[Pudding]

Here's my current load taken from the Lapua loading quide:

155gr Scenar, PPU Case, CCI 200 primer, 46.3gr N140, full length resized cases.

This gives an average MV of around 2850 ft/s, which will be supersonic to over 1000yds. Note that Lapua data predicts a MV of 2490 ft/s. (No, I don't know why, either...)

Your results may differ.

Cheers

Harry

(And Good afternoon Tac... )

[tacfoley]

Here's my current load taken from the Lapua loading quide:

155gr Scenar, PPU Case, CCI 200 primer, 46.3gr N140, full length resized cases.

This gives an average MV of around 2850 ft/s, which will be supersonic to over 1000yds. Note that Lapua data predicts a MV of 2490 ft/s. (No, I don't know why, either...)

Your results may differ.

Cheers

Harry

(And Good afternoon Tac... )

Afternoom, Sir. That sounds like a lively load! Mind you, the bullet is 19gr lighter than the usual item. When I win the lottery I'll buy one of those nice bullets and give it a go.

tac, registered skatecheap, shooting PPU bullets at fippencebippence a thousand.

[Mike95]

2850 fps!!! Must tickle the shoulder a little.

Mike95

[Pudding]

Must tickle the shoulder a little.

Surpisingly, no. Noticeably less felt recoil than PPU ready-rolled stuff.

[kennyc]

PPU 174grn (GP11 clone) bullet and 40-42 grns N140 or TR140 in mine, although I am moving onto Elcho 17

[andrew375]

I only have one jacketed bullet load. That is the load out of the Viht manual for 155gr. bullets for N140 but with the 155 SMK rather than the Lapua scenar. At 900 and 1000 yards needs the rear sight put up an extra notch, that is on the 1100 meter setting at 1000 yards.

Mostly shoot cast though. I use both the Lee 200gr and 150gr flat nose with great results. First slug your bore to find the size, mine is .3088" so using .308" dia bullets is a waste of time. Both Lee moulds cast out at .310" so I use a sizer that barely touches the sides, just enough to seat the gas check really. Best load so far is 34 gr. of Vectan Tu3000 for 2234 fps with the Lee 150. Ten shot groups at 100 yards at around 3". This rifle definitely prefers its cast bullets to go fast! Other loads are 26 of N110 for 2205fps, 30 of Lovex D060 for 2296 fps and 24 Lovex S040 for 2202 fps with just 4 fps extreme spread!

Cost of these loads is around 12p - 16p per round.

All loading is done with a Lee collet die set.

[Mike95]

My K31 will shoot practically any 308/309 bullet but the bullet may have to be seated very deep. My k31 was rebarrelled in 1957 and the bore may be as tight at .295! I have mentioned the NOE K31 mould in an earlier post, this is a bore riding bullet with a nose of .297..

I am awaiting a supply of a Lee 160gn bullet which I will give a try.

mike95

[Black Beard]

I got a K31 a few weeks ago.

After loading up some cartridges (14 grn Trail Boss- 148grn .308 jacketed bullet- nice light load), firing them and then resizing with full length dies there seemed to be a big difference between the fired cases and the sized ones.

So I measured the cases using a couple of verniers and the RCBS sized ones seemed to be very different with longer necks, the Lee sized ones a bit less different.

Then I devised a cunning way of measuring headspace over the shoulder compared to the fired case.

Results are that the Lee dies size from 0.01mm less headspace than the fired cases at the shoulder to 0.18mm less near the neck. So the shoulder angle is a bit steeper on the Lee die than the chamber but it will still headspace closely on the shoulder.

Results from the RCBS dies are a bit disturbing. Headspace at the neck is 0.66mm less and 0.35mm close to the shoulder (measured at 11.35mm diameter). That is 14 thou difference, much more than most cartridges. I don’t think I’ll be using the RCBS dies as they won’t do the brass any good.

There are claims on the internet that the RCBS dies are based upon the 1911 rifle, which has a different chamber to a K31. I think this backs it up.

BB

[tacfoley]

Yes, BB, you are quite right in your surmise, hence the popularity of the cheap and cheerful Lee dies that seem to suit ALL of the later straight-pulls. I am excepting there the Model of 1889, since I doubt that there are many here who shoot theirs. As there is no GP90 made these days [since hr middle 1920's in fact] anybody who loads for one of these has to do it the hard way - making a 217gr bullet is a step too far for most casual shooters.

The K31 chamber is lot tighter than that of the K11/IG11, and therefore usually needs to be full-length resized and trimmed to suit. Note, too that the reason why bullets seem to need to be seated deeper is that the GP11 bullet has a very modern-looking and long ogive that most.308" bullets do not have, unless you sue SMK or Berger bullets with their low-drag shape. I also use the Lee dies, and have done so for many years.

One of our posters here was kind enough to send me some of his cast bullets to try out, but their rather blunt ogive meant that they would not chamber fully in my K31, but were a lot easier in my K11, in which they shoot fairly well with a load of 5477 recommended by Andy Allwood. I use them on our guest days to let noobs/guests try out something quite different from the usual bolt-action, since IMO serving them up a magazine loaded with GP11 is a mite cruel.

I suggest that anybody new to Swiss schtuff, and the somewhat strange cleaning régime adopted by them in the 1880's that results in pristine bores over a hundred years on - join us over on www.swissrifles.com. And if anybody here with a K31 has a butt-tag that they can't decipher, or wishes to contact the previous owner [lots of us do], then that is the place to find out how to do it. Needless to say, there are things that I can help with, if needed. - without resorting to self-agrandisment, of course. My third Swiss rifle is a .308Win target rifle on a K31 action, BTW.

THE definitive book on the Swiss straight-pulls is written by Joe Poyer - 'Swiis Magazine loading rifles 1969 to 1958' worth every penny of the £20 or so.

tac
www.swissrifles.com

[Black Beard]

Got the book already. Very useful.

Long term I might look for a better die set but until then it'll be the lee dies.

[tacfoley]

Got the book already. Very useful. Long term I might look for a better die set but until then it'll be the lee dies.

I've used the Lee dies since 1989, I'm still happy with them. Used the Lee trimmer, too, simple and long-lasting.

tac