Webley Mark I Straight Grip Variants

[AC99]

Hi Aubrey,

Your contribution does indeed help as I was hoping someone had the abridged patent variant in their collection. Interesting to learn of the variation in body stampings and the smoothbore barrel. I would be interested if there are other straight grip MkIs with shortened barrels towards the end of production. It is possible the barrel is a later replacement -is it stamped MKI and the calibre? Are there any markings suggesting the smooth bore?

Kind regards,

John

John,
LHS of barrel is stamped "Mk1 .177" but there are no other markings to indicate it is a smooth bore.
One other thing though which I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that the LH of spring chamber is stamped "OIL HERE" as on later models. This particular example could almost be described as a transition model between the upright wooden grip model and plastic sloping grip (with smooth thumb-rest) pre-war models. In fact, comparing one of my pre-war plastic grip models - s/no 62876 - with this one apart from grip design and angle of frame, stampings and barrel length are pretty much identical.
You were suggesting that the barrel may be a later replacement but wear on both barrel and rest of frame look much the same possibly indicating barrel is original but I have no means of proving this. I also do not think that in Bruce's book any mention is made of the "oil here" instruction appearing on these upright models. However, other similar examples may well turn up here sooner or later.
Aubrey

[AC99]

Hi John,
I need to correct my earlier post regarding the "OIL HERE" stamping. Gordon Bruce does in fact mention on page 30 that this instruction was first stamped on Mk1s wit s/nos between 45500 and 46500 so my fairly late 48316 conforms with this.
On the other hand Bruce is fairly clear that the shorter barrel was not introduced until the time of the modified shape with the 120 degree slope so maybe you are right and the shorter barrel on mine was fitted later. Who knows?
Without re-reading these chapters again is it clear when the smooth bore barrel was introduced?
Aubrey

[Josie & John]

Hi Aubrey,

Thank you for your detailed replies. Can you confirm what is stamped on the LHS of the cylinder on 48316? I'm presuming similar markings to the slant grip Mk I.

Smoothbore was always an option with Webley pistols for markets where rifled barrels were either prohibited or subject to stricter controls. I believe Ireland was one such market and I was once told Poland had similar restrictions but do not know this for certain. Thanks for checking the OIL HERE in Bruce's book - I was aware of this but have not seen such an example, so am grateful to you for sharing yours, so to speak. I was not aware of any short muzzle Mark I pistols and know of straight grip seniors in the S6000 range, which still have the extended muzzle. This suggests the shorter barrel was introduced when the grip angle was changed at S7001 and 50001 for the Senior and Mark I respectively. I guess without concrete proof, we just don't know if some short muzzled barrels were produced earlier than we believe but the likelihood is the change came when the grip profile was streamlined.

Just thought of one more question on 48316. Is the trigger guard the same width all the way round or is the base pinched in the manner of late straight grip Seniors?

Thanks again for your responses.

John

[Josie & John]

Details of my MkI pistols

1 - SN 9530 - British Patent on breech block without trigger adjustment.

2 - SN 25820 - International Patents with WEBLEY AIR PISTOL MARK I on RHS of cylinder and non locking trigger adjuster.

3 - SN 47130 - International Patents with WEBLEY AIR PISTOL MARK I on RHS of cylinder and locking trigger adjuster. Twin bung model.

SN 25820 has the cone shaped adjuster rather than the expected fillister-headed one.

I would also like to say how informative and interesting your series was on the Mark II Service rifle. I'd never really had a good look at mine, and found that it too had a tapered barrel. The extra data on assembly numbering of parts was completely new to me.

Ian

Hi Ian,

One quick question - does 25820 have a Barrel Joint Axis securing screw? I.e. a screwhead on either side?

Kind regards,

John

[webman]

Hi John, yes, it has the retaining screw for the barrel joint screw.

Ian

[Josie & John]

Hi John, yes, it has the retaining screw for the barrel joint screw.

Ian

Thanks Ian

[AC99]

Hi Aubrey,

Thank you for your detailed replies. Can you confirm what is stamped on the LHS of the cylinder on 48316? I'm presuming similar markings to the slant grip Mk I.

Smoothbore was always an option with Webley pistols for markets where rifled barrels were either prohibited or subject to stricter controls. I believe Ireland was one such market and I was once told Poland had similar restrictions but do not know this for certain. Thanks for checking the OIL HERE in Bruce's book - I was aware of this but have not seen such an example, so am grateful to you for sharing yours, so to speak. I was not aware of any short muzzle Mark I pistols and know of straight grip seniors in the S6000 range, which still have the extended muzzle. This suggests the shorter barrel was introduced when the grip angle was changed at S7001 and 50001 for the Senior and Mark I respectively. I guess without concrete proof, we just don't know if some short muzzled barrels were produced earlier than we believe but the likelihood is the change came when the grip profile was streamlined.

Just thought of one more question on 48316. Is the trigger guard the same width all the way round or is the base pinched in the manner of late straight grip Seniors?

Thanks again for your responses.

John

Hi John,
The markings on LHS of 48316 cylinder are identical to those on slant grip model.
Also the trigger guard is the same width all the way round
Aubrey

[Josie & John]

Hi John,
The markings on LHS of 48316 cylinder are identical to those on slant grip model.
Also the trigger guard is the same width all the way round
Aubrey

Thank you Aubrey

Kind regards,

John

[splosh!]

hi 1713 has on l.h.s webley air pistol mk1 webley & scott ltd birmingham & london and on the block patents applied for .

[Josie & John]

hi 1713 has on l.h.s webley air pistol mk1 webley & scott ltd birmingham & london and on the block patents applied for .

Thank you splosh! Presumably the pistol has the (slightly) smaller frame and grips?

John

[le frelon]

Hi John,
2 more for the record.
Both identical with one exception.

32603. Rifled, straight wood grips, thumbcatch model. International patent, Webley mk1 on r//h side of cylinder, locking trigger adjuster.
Birmingham and London address.
Mk1 .22 stamped on RIGHT HAND side of barrel pivot.

47434. All as above.
Mk1 .22 stamped on LEFT HAND side of barrel pivot.

rgds
Carl

[dogsbody]

Hi John,

I have two

a) #27177 Seems identical to Garvin's
b) #42806 seems identical to a) except that it just has 'Webley & Scott Ltd Birmingham' not 'Webley & Scott Ltd Birmingham & London'

atb

dogsbody

[thenightstalker]

Hi,
I have two for the list:
Serial number 1535 with Webley air pistol mark 1 on lhs and webley and scott ltd Birmingham and London and patents applied for on breech block. It also has slim grips.


And - Serial number 12853 with the same text on lhs but British patent 219872 on rhs of cylinder also it has trigger adjusting screw.

Nick.

[Josie & John]

Thank you for the latest replies - it all helps to paint a clear picture.

Carl,
I thought I saw your bike at Bisley this morning but didn't see you

If it was your bike, I hope you found something interesting at the fair.

John

[Josie & John]

Hi John,
2 more for the record.
Both identical with one exception.

32603. Rifled, straight wood grips, thumbcatch model. International patent, Webley mk1 on r//h side of cylinder, locking trigger adjuster.
Birmingham and London address.
Mk1 .22 stamped on RIGHT HAND side of barrel pivot.

47434. All as above.
Mk1 .22 stamped on LEFT HAND side of barrel pivot.

rgds
Carl

Hi Carl,

Are you sure 47434 mentions London?

Kind regards,

John