When is buying new better than second hand?

[elewis411]

Almost never.
Especially at the bottom end of the market. Your question about £200 springers for instance, for that £200 you can buy a P.O.S. Chinese "gun shaped object", or you can buy a secondhand German or British gun that was properly built (thinking HW95 / BSA Superstar / HW77 / TX200).
With PCPs it can be more difficult, you don't know what's been done but by picking the right gun there are rarely problems. For instance if you buy an S16 you'd better have a mate / brother in law who is a gunsmith, whereas if you buy an S400/BSA Ultra or similar there will be no problems.
It's just the same as cars, spend £8K on a new Korean/Indonesian wheelie bin with a piddling little petrol engine or spend £8K on a low miles large German Diesel - it's not hard to work out which is better.

Also, as someone else mentioned above, if you buy secondhand you can sell it for the same money you paid for it. You can swap guns as often as you like and you're not loosing money (you might make a bit if you're canny).

1 problem with your argument is that not all chinese made rifles are a P.O.S these days, i'm a fan of springers and have had the best in the past but a few chinese P.O.S have really surprised me in the last couple of years. Take the new remington express for example, i recently bought one for a friend who wanted to try an air rifle but didn't want to pay the inflated prices of weihrauch etc, i got the rifle for £125 brand new when a hw95 would have cost him at least 2x times that second hand and guess what, it's a really nice rifle that shoots spot on and without the problems i have had with new so called superior rifles in the past, such as bolt cropped main springs etc...

[angrybear]

I would always buy used quality rather than new economy, be that guns, tools, cars, bikes or anything else.

[Biker_Bob]

Some interesting opinions here.
So are we essentally saying that there is no market or real need for the budget airguns?
In which case is there any point in them being made at all? Who buys them? Why do they buy them?
What happens when the supply of second hand air rifles dries up? Will that even happen?

There will always be people who aren't clued up enough to feel they want to take the "risk" of buying secondhand. So their £200 goes on a budget gun, you know, the sort that comes with a scope and gunbag and pellets. These folks will always keep the bottom end of the market going so there will always be a supply of these cheapies.
Many people just shoot tin cans or want to try a spot of ratting and almost anything will do.
Then you've got the serious hunters, who buy the middle tier stuff, HW/TX/LG etc or for PCPs you're into S410/R10/HW100 and these folks keep the supply of decent quality secondhand stuff going in the £300-£500 bracket.
At the top end are the target boys, the sky's the limit for some, but many buy decent mid-tier guns and a lot are the same as the hunters buy, but the caliber will usually be different.
And some folks just like to buy new kit, even if they are knowledgeable enough to be able to make a good choice of secondhand gun/combo.
Also don't discount the impulse buy, I've seen people shell out £1K on their first ever air rifle combo - no idea what they're buying or why but they're really excited and just want to treat themselves. Said kit can then be snapped up by the rest of us for £600 a couple of weeks later

[I. J.]

All the guns Im interested in are no longer available new. I did recently buy a brand new SSP 10m pistol. It last less than 200 shots before it broke. I returned in to the retailer and exchanged it for an old s/h FWB100 pistol.

ATB
Ian

[Biker_Bob]

All the guns Im interested in are no longer available new. I did recently buy a brand new SSP 10m pistol. It last less than 200 shots before it broke. I returned in to the retailer and exchanged it for an old s/h FWB100 pistol.

ATB
Ian

Yes, they haven't made Sharp Aces for a while either. Luckily they're very well made and sufficiently well thought of that all the parts that you might need are still available new.
I definately think the airgun market has gone the way of the mobile phone market - there used to be a real choice but now everything's kind of the same, just with different clothes.

[junglie]

All the guns Im interested in are no longer available new. I did recently buy a brand new SSP 10m pistol. It last less than 200 shots before it broke. I returned in to the retailer and exchanged it for an old s/h FWB100 pistol.

ATB
Ian

it wasn't a wobbly was it Ian?

[PCPShooter]

S/H guns bought off here BBS with faults NOT mentioned by seller and result

HW35 described as good - a dog, lost return postage - I lost out
HW80 described as OK - barrel bent like banana, blueing so poor required re blue, could have bought minter for less - I lost out
Vulcan - bent barrel at block - replaced barrel - I lost out
Victor in 177 - sloppy breach, never got that one fixed, broke and sold at loss - I lost out
HW35 - trigger guard screw milled out, was OK, still got stock, item not as described - I lost out
Excel - damage to trigger guard location screw - I lost out
Simmons scope payed by paypal - lost all money 70 - 90 quid from memory, no comeback no scope (I NEVER use paypal on forums now) Lost out completely
HW95 - Seem inside main cylinder - V Mach honed out - I lost out
HW95 - fitted with early 85 piston, galling cylinder, I had honed out and had to buy correct piston - I lost out

New rifles bought with problems and result :

Brocock Concept - Bought Vandenburgers lost air as stored flat in shop - outcome - Brocock Sorted FOC
Diana 31 Bought Sportwaffen with barrel slightly off in block - outcome Diana replaced barrel and block from scratch FOC even stamping matching numbers on new barrel
BSA Ultra Bought C H Weston - fitted with incorrect air cylinder - JB replaced FOC he was so narked at what BSA did with his design

Of course I've had good deals too on s/h rifles, here and elsewhere. Bought a cracking Superstar off POK recently - one of the many good guys on here, IJ has done me favours too, People like El Mapino and Mach 1.5 stalwarts for years have never to my knowledge sold a duff item, genuine absolute enthusiasts too many nice people to mention

My overall experience is that for inexperienced air gun shooters, buying new is a safer bet, and I've never had a bad experience from a shop UK or Imported when something is not right, more scrupulous than private sales overall

[I. J.]

it wasn't a wobbly was it Ian?

I wouldn't have expected a Wobbly to last 200 shots before breaking.

[tinbum]

I wouldn't have expected a Wobbly to last 200 shots before breaking.

Ooh! Ooh! Sir, sir! Was it the new FAS?

[I. J.]

Ooh! Ooh! Sir, sir! Was it the new FAS?

Whats your postal addy so I can send you the paper hat!

[PCPShooter]

I wouldn't have expected a Wobbly to last 200 shots before breaking.

Oi, I'm partial to a Wobbly, just not a Super Wobbly

Now when I was a lad, there was this new shop called Manchester Airguns started up, then there was this funny place called Target Sports after that ......


Personally I think the Terrus, Fenix 400, Slavia are all crackers for the money, and that the GTee is worthwhile ......

[Biker_Bob]

S/H guns bought off here BBS with faults NOT mentioned by seller and result

HW35 described as good - a dog, lost return postage - I lost out
HW80 described as OK - barrel bent like banana, blueing so poor required re blue, could have bought minter for less - I lost out
Vulcan - bent barrel at block - replaced barrel - I lost out
Victor in 177 - sloppy breach, never got that one fixed, broke and sold at loss - I lost out
HW35 - trigger guard screw milled out, was OK, still got stock, item not as described - I lost out
Excel - damage to trigger guard location screw - I lost out
Simmons scope payed by paypal - lost all money 70 - 90 quid from memory, no comeback no scope (I NEVER use paypal on forums now) Lost out completely
HW95 - Seem inside main cylinder - V Mach honed out - I lost out
HW95 - fitted with early 85 piston, galling cylinder, I had honed out and had to buy correct piston - I lost out

New rifles bought with problems and result :

Brocock Concept - Bought Vandenburgers lost air as stored flat in shop - outcome - Brocock Sorted FOC
Diana 31 Bought Sportwaffen with barrel slightly off in block - outcome Diana replaced barrel and block from scratch FOC even stamping matching numbers on new barrel
BSA Ultra Bought C H Weston - fitted with incorrect air cylinder - JB replaced FOC he was so narked at what BSA did with his design

Of course I've had good deals too on s/h rifles, here and elsewhere. Bought a cracking Superstar off POK recently - one of the many good guys on here, IJ has done me favours too, People like El Mapino and Mach 1.5 stalwarts for years have never to my knowledge sold a duff item, genuine absolute enthusiasts too many nice people to mention

My overall experience is that for inexperienced air gun shooters, buying new is a safer bet, and I've never had a bad experience from a shop UK or Imported when something is not right, more scrupulous than private sales overall

You've had some rum deals there to be sure.
A lot of the problem is probably down to not seeing before paying.
If you'd had hands and eyes on the gun before buying I guess you wouldn't have bought most of those secondhand guns?

[PCPShooter]

You've had some rum deals there to be sure.
A lot of the problem is probably down to not seeing before paying.
If you'd had hands and eyes on the gun before buying I guess you wouldn't have bought most of those secondhand guns?

If I'd have had to be close enough to do face to face, I'd have had none of the above, nor the good uns either ........there in is the problem
Though I know what to look for, newbies don't. I couldn't have seen inside the 95 with the seem either, and people selling guns are not keen on screwdrivers coming out and haven the stock off generally ....

[tx200hc <3]

This is my rifle....there are many like it but this one is mine.....

That is why i always buy new ^^^^^

[Rapidnick]

S/H guns bought off here BBS with faults NOT mentioned by seller and result

HW35 described as good - a dog, lost return postage - I lost out
HW80 described as OK - barrel bent like banana, blueing so poor required re blue, could have bought minter for less - I lost out
Vulcan - bent barrel at block - replaced barrel - I lost out
Victor in 177 - sloppy breach, never got that one fixed, broke and sold at loss - I lost out
HW35 - trigger guard screw milled out, was OK, still got stock, item not as described - I lost out
Excel - damage to trigger guard location screw - I lost out
Simmons scope payed by paypal - lost all money 70 - 90 quid from memory, no comeback no scope (I NEVER use paypal on forums now) Lost out completely
HW95 - Seem inside main cylinder - V Mach honed out - I lost out
HW95 - fitted with early 85 piston, galling cylinder, I had honed out and had to buy correct piston - I lost out

New rifles bought with problems and result :

Brocock Concept - Bought Vandenburgers lost air as stored flat in shop - outcome - Brocock Sorted FOC
Diana 31 Bought Sportwaffen with barrel slightly off in block - outcome Diana replaced barrel and block from scratch FOC even stamping matching numbers on new barrel
BSA Ultra Bought C H Weston - fitted with incorrect air cylinder - JB replaced FOC he was so narked at what BSA did with his design

Of course I've had good deals too on s/h rifles, here and elsewhere. Bought a cracking Superstar off POK recently - one of the many good guys on here, IJ has done me favours too, People like El Mapino and Mach 1.5 stalwarts for years have never to my knowledge sold a duff item, genuine absolute enthusiasts too many nice people to mention

My overall experience is that for inexperienced air gun shooters, buying new is a safer bet, and I've never had a bad experience from a shop UK or Imported when something is not right, more scrupulous than private sales overall

I must admit that your experiences would lead me to the same conclusion as you. However I have only had a few bad experiences- one involving fraud when I was new on here-and they have all been easily sorted. On the other hand I have saved myself a load of cash by buying different rifles to find which ones suited me best..