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Thread: Flintlock pistol for competition

  1. #1
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    Flintlock pistol for competition

    I applied for buying permit for .44 or .45 flintlock pistol few weeks ago. Hoping to get the permit next week.

    I´ll be shooting flintlock among percussion pistol and -revolver in national competitions, so pistol must have smooth bore of min. cal 11mm (.433)

    I´v heard and read that the Hege Manton is the king of the hill. But there aren´t many of them for sale. egun lists only one at the moment. That one is priced 1600€ - way too much for me..

    Pedersoli Le Page might be a good one too, but what else is out there? What pistols are used in international competitions?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by JiriK View Post
    I applied for buying permit for .44 or .45 flintlock pistol few weeks ago. Hoping to get the permit next week.

    I´ll be shooting flintlock among percussion pistol and -revolver in national competitions, so pistol must have smooth bore of min. cal 11mm (.433)

    I´v heard and read that the Hege Manton is the king of the hill. But there aren´t many of them for sale. egun lists only one at the moment. That one is priced 1600€ - way too much for me..

    Pedersoli Le Page might be a good one too, but what else is out there? What pistols are used in international competitions?
    You've just listed THE two dominant pistols that are replications of the finest of their kind ever made. The Kuechenreuter is up there too. I also have to admit that while I've seen a flintlock LePage, I've never seen a flintlock Kuechenreuter.

    There comes a time when you have to bite the bullet and stump up for the £££/$$$/eu. Shooting in the Nationals with anything less than the very best shooting device available is a waste of your time - you want to 'fly with the eagles' without having 'eagle wings' Never happen, Sir. That's why Ferrari win races, and Hyundai doesn't. There HAS to be a good reason why the best in the world shoot the best pistols. No champion muzzle-loader ever won using a cheap gun to do it.

    I suggest that you examine what your fellow national squad shooters are shooting, and do the same. Have a look on Youtube at the current and many-times national champion of Hungary's channel - his channel can be found under capandball. He obviously has very close connections to the Pedersoli factory, something that might work to your advantage if you can pursuade them to work with YOU. He is an engagingly good guy, and speaks excellent, if often rather odd, English, a bit like me, really.

    I also recommend to the a VERY good book, in English, written by one of the UK's top muzzleloading pistol shooters, Derek Fuller. It's called 'The Definitive guide to shooting muzzleloading pistols' and is THE book whatever level of shooting you are at. If you have problems finding a copy, PM me and we'll arrange something.

    tac
    Last edited by tacfoley; 03-11-2014 at 01:53 PM.

  3. #3
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    I'm not so sure Tac, I lost €100 shooting against the owner of Magnum Gun Club in Prague, he had an old spray painted (but expensive and German) percussion revolver, I had a tricked up Colt Gold Cup

    It was only afterwards I found out he was the Czech Muzzle loading Champion but I have never seen groups like that with a charcoal burner

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardH View Post
    I'm not so sure Tac, I lost €100 shooting against the owner of Magnum Gun Club in Prague, he had an old spray painted (but expensive and German) percussion revolver, I had a tricked up Colt Gold Cup

    It was only afterwards I found out he was the Czech Muzzle loading Champion but I have never seen groups like that with a charcoal burner
    Advice to you - never take on a #1 muzzle-loader pistol shooter with anything less than a scope-mounted rifle. It is SOOOOOOO hard to get to the top of the m/l handgun tree that those who do it have usually forgotten more than we mere mortals have ever learnt.

    tac

  5. #5
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    Pedersoli

    The difference in quality of the Hege Manton and Pedersoli Le Page is substantial and is reflected in their costs. I think one of the reasons Hege ceased production was that the cost of production was too high and the prospective market too small. Andreas Baumkircher (http://baumkircher.at/Products.aspx?...s.aspx&lang=en) now makes an 'Egg' repro but it's priced at €6,500...

    I've had both Hege and Pedersoli and sold the Hege and apart from the loss of pleasure of owning something as beautifully made as the Manton, I don't regret it. The Pedersoli shoots into the 90s and groups extremely well. My best was a 96 earlier this year with all 10 scoring shots inside or touching the 10 ring. It's setting up the trigger and being able to control a very light set that seems to make the most difference. That and fast ignition! As someone once advised me, if a flint fails to spark, change it immediately as it will cause poor ignition. I was once shooting in Bordeaux at the Pedersoli Challenge and was using a borrowed original flint pistol. It was only the second time I'd tried it and I wasn't sure what to expect. What I didn't count on was having to change the flint about 8 times during the detail! Much to my (and everyone else who was watching) I shot a 93 having got all 13 shots off. I won the match and in concert with another couple of respectable scores in other matches, won the Pistol Challenge and came home with a new Pedersoli Charles Moore.

    Have fun with whichever one you go with, just remember that sometimes you drive them, sometimes they drive you...
    If you must drive on the right, move to France

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacfoley View Post
    Advice to you - never take on a #1 muzzle-loader pistol shooter with anything less than a scope-mounted rifle. It is SOOOOOOO hard to get to the top of the m/l handgun tree that those who do it have usually forgotten more than we mere mortals have ever learnt.

    tac
    Seemed such a safe bet at the outset

    A very impressive if expensive display.

  7. #7
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    Tacfoley, I´ll ask if I could get that book for christmas

    NickHarvey, Thanks for your response.
    I think most local shooters use Hege Manton. One has Pedersoli Le Page too. Actually got to try that Le Page in my hand last summer. Much better fit to my big hand than the .31 percussion Le Page my clubmate has.

    I heard that new Finnish record in Cominazzo, 96 was shot using Pedersoli Mortimer flintlock pistol.
    This happened this summer at national championship competition. I was there, but didn´t take notice what pistols they were using.

    How is Pedersoli Charles Moore flintlock, looks similar to Siber?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JiriK View Post
    How is Pedersoli Charles Moore flintlock, looks similar to Siber?
    The Hege Siber [Jean Siber was Swiss] looks almost identical to the LePage of the same genre. The Mortimer flintlock is from another earlier era, and since Mortimer actually MADE duellers - this is an almost perfect replica of one of them.

    tac

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickHarvey View Post
    ...and came home with a new Pedersoli Charles Moore...
    How did you square that with your local F&ELD? I once won a Colt Gold Cup .45 in Washington and has to give it up to the next man down - I never thought I'd win anything in the competition, but entered it all the same.

    tac

  10. #10
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    Bought a Pedersoli LePage flintlock pistol today.
    Bit chilly to go try it, but hopefully soon..

  11. #11
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    any photos of your new pistol ?
    ballkeeper

  12. #12
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  13. #13
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    very nice bet you cant wait to shoot it,
    Last edited by gtpkeeper; 26-03-2015 at 02:46 PM.
    ballkeeper

  14. #14
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    Finnish Team

    Just a thought but if you live in Turku, you should get in touch with Tarmo Ansamaa who lives in the same city. I sold him my Manton a few years ago and he shoots that extremely well! Getting that gun to him was a story in itself as I couldn't find a carrier and ended up taking it out there myself. One night in Turku and home the next day...
    If you must drive on the right, move to France

  15. #15
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    Nick, I know Tarmo. I´ll go show him this pistol some day so he can check that it is in good working order.
    Then when weather gets better we can go test fire the pistol a bit. Tarmo told me about that Manton delivery project.

    btw, what diameter patch is normally used for .45 cal pistol?
    I ordered a punch from china to make patches for Hege Siber (.330) but those are too small for .45 cal.

    Found loading data for this pistol from Pedersoli website.
    28gr nominal, 40gr max load
    0.464" ball & 0.010" patch
    0.464" ball + 2 * 0.010" patch -> 0.484"
    I have .457 mould so that should require a 0.0135" thick patch..

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