Webley Premier or Senior?

[laverdabru]

Been reading through the L Wesley Air-guns/pistols book. Which got me thinking about Webley pistols again.
In the past, I've owned a tin grip Junior, a banana barrel Mk 1, & an early Hurricane .22, that I still have. What sort of ball park figure should I be looking at for a Premier/Senior? Which is better?
Not overly worried about whether it's .22 or .177, or boxed. Just a clean shooter.

Bru

[Garvin]

Which is better?

I'm not sure about the shooting characterstics of the Senior vs the Premier, but the Senior seems quite a bit more refined to me. Even the early Premiers show signs of the cost cutting currently being discussed over on the Airsporter thread, although the rot didn't really set in until the later Premiers. I still have the 1950s Senior I had 30 years ago and it's close to perfection IMO.

[Abasmajor]

Been reading through the L Wesley Air-guns/pistols book. Which got me thinking about Webley pistols again.
In the past, I've owned a tin grip Junior, a banana barrel Mk 1, & an early Hurricane .22, that I still have. What sort of ball park figure should I be looking at for a Premier/Senior? Which is better?
Not overly worried about whether it's .22 or .177, or boxed. Just a clean shooter.

Bru

I don't believe there is very much to choose between the Senior and the early Premier air pistols in terms of performance and quality. If I were forced to choose, I would probably opt for an early Premier purely for the provision of some adjustment to the trigger weight. I paid £200 for a nice boxed 'A' series Premier with spare barrel and £100 for an unboxed 'B' series example in similar cosmetic condition. That was a few years ago now, but I still wouldn't expect to pay much more than £150 for a nice Senior or early Premier. You should obviously expect to pay a premium for a box and accessories or if you buy from a dealer.

Regards

Brian

[laverdabru]

Hi, thanks for the replies.
Had a look around on some sites for Webley pistols & was amazed at dealer prices - although I do realise they have overheads.
Guess I'll just keep a weather eye open for a nice, unboxed Senior/Premier 'user'. Much as I have an affection for the Junior & MK1 pistols I grew up with, certainly don't think I am willing to pay what some ask.
Bru

[harvey_s]

A Senior is fine traditional gunmaking in an air pistol regardless of price - the Premier has been value-engineered to make a profit.
That however does not make it a worse gun in practice

[Mark D]

I'm with Brian on this, early A and B series Premiers are not value engineered and with the added bonus of a trigger adjustment screw make fine shooters. I have shot some Seniors that had a trigger pull that gave the trigger finger an RSI after a few shots!

[Garvin]

I'm with Brian on this, early A and B series Premiers are not value engineered and with the added bonus of a trigger adjustment screw make fine shooters. I have shot some Seniors that had a trigger pull that gave the trigger finger an RSI after a few shots!

It's years ago now but I remember putting a Senior side by side with a Premier 'D' and there were several signs of economies in the Premier - I remember the stirrup catch was particularly crudely finished compared to the Senior - a "sintered casting" according to John Milewski. So at least by summer 1966 the rot had started! I take the point about the trigger pull though. It's quite heavy, although precise, on my Senior.

[lodmoor]

No comments about one having a leather piston washer and the other a metal piston ring?

[Rickenbacker]

To me, theres something about a curly triggered, red/brown gripped Senior - that a Premier just doesn't have.

Those Seniors are somehow more 'Luger-ish' looking, and fit on the lap or side-table in a more satisfying way.

And they seem to shoot nice with the piston ring.

[splosh!]

The Senior was webley flag ship model but if you can try all the models

[harvey_s]

All of the nice cording on the Senior was dropped on the Premier as well...

[Abasmajor]

If I were to choose my favourite variant of the 'Senior', it would be the pre-war 'Slant-Grip' model which I still regard as the pinnacle of Webley air pistol development.

Although there were further developments after the war ended, the essentials are all embodied in this particular iteration of the pistol's design.

The additional cocking link inherited from the pre-war 'Straight Grip' Senior represented a major step forward and the introduction of the slanted grip itself not only looked sleeker, but allowed the pistol to come up on aim much more naturally.

I also personally prefer the slimmer trigger, lack of knurling on barrel and plain grips without the presence of the Webley logo.

Anybody else have a particular favourite variant of the pre or post war 'Senior' ?

Regards

Brian

[patt1796]

Pre-war slant grip is my favourite followed by early post -war type.

[PaulR]

I collect Webley pistols and have examples of many - Mark 1s, Juniors, Seniors, Premiers, Tempests, Hurricanes, Typhoons, and Nemeses. I lack some target versions. However I USE them all.

I really want to say my two "Seniors" are the best. They are so well made but, I am sorry to say, they are crap to shoot. The triggers are overly heavy and non adjustable. Despite polishing etc I cannot get a happy compromise.

I have an "A" Premier which is wonderful by comparison. Adjustable trigger, lighter and a delight to shoot. I have two later series Premiers and they are also better.

Even the early straight grip Mark 1 and later slants plus the "Tempest" range etc. I prefer.

Dare I say - I think the Seniors are remarkable bits of engineering but vastly overrated as usable pistols.

[Josie & John]

Must say I have had better results from Premiers than Seniors, which I tend to put down to the adjustable trigger over the Senior's rather creepy one. I like all Webleys though and one particularly pleasant Senior to use is the 4 pin model, which had that elusive adjustable trigger. That shoots better than any of my later Seniors but the stirrup catch can rub the base of my thumb after prolonged use. Probably why I favour the Mark II Target Model as my personal favourite.

I have to finish with a caveat in that the niggles I mention are of a very minor nature and I have long had a passion for all spring Webley air pistols. The real answer then to the original question is to own both a Senior and Premier, then shoot whichever takes your fancy on a particular day.

John