How do you rate Gat-type pistols as collectables?

[Garvin]

Several pop-outs for sale at Kranks at the moment, I see. Not cheap though.

http://www.henrykrank.com/index.php?...ort=20a&page=2

http://www.henrykrank.com/index.php?...ort=20a&page=1

[ccdjg]

Several pop-outs for sale at Kranks at the moment, I see. Not cheap though.

http://www.henrykrank.com/index.php?...ort=20a&page=2

http://www.henrykrank.com/index.php?...ort=20a&page=1

I think the Garanta he has on offer must be one of the most overpriced push-barrel pistols I have seen. Yes they are rare, and it took me a long time to find one, but they are only just a differently marked version of the common pressed steel Briton. It has been on sale for a long time now with no sign of a price drop and at this price will probably stay on sale for a long time to come.

[ccdjg]

I started this thread to get some indication of how popular gat-type air pistols were as collectables among our forum members, and after 386 views and 16 replies I think I can now reach some sort of conclusion. I get the overall impression that few members regard these as serious items to collect, and most of those that have examples in their collection do so for nostalgic reasons, or because they came across a bargain. In a way this is a pity, as these are true air guns, and have a long history dating back to Quackenbush’s invention of the design in 1876. An example of one of these first guns would be worth a small fortune. I estimate that about 70 different gat-type pistols have been produced worldwide since that first gun, most in the last 70 years (this includes variants of models, such as nickelled versions, rebranded versions etc.), so there is plenty to go for. I think I will continue to look hard for the few I haven’t yet located, and hopefully if they remain unfashionable the prices will stay very affordable.

Incidentally, what I think is the only known advert for the Frank Clarke Whittall air pistol has come my way http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps88800fbd.jpg
This was the first British push-barrel, and was introduced in 1919, predating the first model Briton by six years. http://www.network54.com/Forum/68145...larke+Whittall
Now finding one of these chunky items would be quite a challenge!

[lodmoor]

I personally think that they are a very, very important part of air pistol history and therefore very collectable items.

I have quite a few and I am currently deciding what to cull from my collection, the 'pop outs' will NOT be culled.

They ain't a 'toy' either, anything that can chuck a bit of lead with enough energy to blind is not a toy.

(Shame about the Lov2 though - what a load of ****).

[Garvin]

I started this thread to get some indication of how popular gat-type air pistols were as collectables among our forum members, and after 386 views and 16 replies I think I can now reach some sort of conclusion. I get the overall impression that few members regard these as serious items to collect, and most of those that have examples in their collection do so for nostalgic reasons, or because they came across a bargain. In a way this is a pity, as these are true air guns, and have a long history dating back to Quackenbush’s invention of the design in 1876. An example of one of these first guns would be worth a small fortune. I estimate that about 70 different gat-type pistols have been produced worldwide since that first gun, most in the last 70 years (this includes variants of models, such as nickelled versions, rebranded versions etc.), so there is plenty to go for. I think I will continue to look hard for the few I haven’t yet located, and hopefully if they remain unfashionable the prices will stay very affordable.

Incidentally, what I think is the only known advert for the Frank Clarke Whittall air pistol has come my way http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps88800fbd.jpg
This was the first British push-barrel, and was introduced in 1919, predating the first model Briton by six years. http://www.network54.com/Forum/68145...larke+Whittall
Now finding one of these chunky items would be quite a challenge!

As I mentioned before, John, I can see why the early (ie pre-WW2 and especially pre-WW1) pop outs are very desirable collectables and an important part of our airgunning heritage.

But the Diana/Milbro/Harrington type postwar Gats are a different kettle of fish IMHO - they were produced in large quantities, cheap to make, cheap to buy, and pretty inaccurate and uncomfortable to use. As entry level airguns they're not very suitable or satisfying. Not much going for them, really. As airguns or collectables! Nostalgia is all that's left.

I could easily understand someone investing time, money and energy into collecting pre-WW1 EG pop outs, but someone who collected every variation of TJ's output... I would respect their dedication, but think they had missed out on part of the joy of collecting vintage airguns - which is to handle something of a quality rarely seen today.

[runs for cover...]

[ccdjg]

As I mentioned before, John, I can see why the early (ie pre-WW2 and especially pre-WW1) pop outs are very desirable collectables and an important part of our airgunning heritage.

But the Diana/Milbro/Harrington type postwar Gats are a different kettle of fish IMHO - they were produced in large quantities, cheap to make, cheap to buy, and pretty inaccurate and uncomfortable to use. As entry level airguns they're not very suitable or satisfying. Not much going for them, really. As airguns or collectables! Nostalgia is all that's left.

I could easily understand someone investing time, money and energy into collecting pre-WW1 EG pop outs, but someone who collected every variation of TJ's output... I would respect their dedication, but think they had missed out on part of the joy of collecting vintage airguns - which is to handle something of a quality rarely seen today.

[runs for cover...]

Well Danny, I suppose it all boils down to what makes something collectable or not. One view is that collecting is about acquiring things that interest you, which at the same time are things that may never come round again. They do not have to be items of high technical quality or artistic excellence, so for example old copies of the Radio Times or the Beano, once thrown away with the household rubbish, are highly collectable simply because they are rare, representative of a bygone age, and irreplaceable.

The same is true of the push-barrel pistols. They started off in the late 1800’s being made of cast iron, and as this was not ideal for cheap mass production they petered out by the 1920’s, and we will never see these made again. They were then followed in sequence by forged steel pistols (peculiar to Britain only) in the 1920’s, then a few cast aluminium examples (also British), and then the more familiar pressed steel sheet types which persisted up to the 1980’s, mostly, but not exclusively, made in Britain and Germany. These last may seem very common and unworthy of collecting, but I don't think they should be taken for granted as they are not going to be made again, having been succeeded by the much easier to make die-cast zinc alloy guns, and (horror of horrors) the all-plastic types.

I suppose if legislation carries on the way it is going, even these plastic travesties could eventually disappear off the market for ever and then would be considered collectable.

[Garvin]

Well Danny, I suppose it all boils down to what makes something collectable or not. One view is that collecting is about acquiring things that interest you, which at the same time are things that may never come round again. They do not have to be items of high technical quality or artistic excellence, so for example old copies of the Radio Times or the Beano, once thrown away with the household rubbish, are highly collectable simply because they are rare, representative of a bygone age, and irreplaceable.

The same is true of the push-barrel pistols. They started off in the late 1800’s being made of cast iron, and as this was not ideal for cheap mass production they petered out by the 1920’s, and we will never see these made again. They were then followed in sequence by forged steel pistols (peculiar to Britain only) in the 1920’s, then a few cast aluminium examples (also British), and then the more familiar pressed steel sheet types which persisted up to the 1980’s, mostly, but not exclusively, made in Britain and Germany. These last may seem very common and unworthy of collecting, but I don't think they should be taken for granted as they are not going to be made again, having been succeeded by the much easier to make die-cast zinc alloy guns, and (horror of horrors) the all-plastic types.

I suppose if legislation carries on the way it is going, even these plastic travesties could eventually disappear off the market for ever and then would be considered collectable.

True enough, people will collect any old rubbish! I suppose it's just where you draw the line.

Perhaps we can all agree that anyone openly advocating the collecting of all-plastic airguns should be given their marching orders from this section of the BBS?

[ccdjg]

True enough, people will collect any old rubbish! I suppose it's just where you draw the line.

Perhaps we can all agree that anyone openly advocating the collecting of all-plastic airguns should be given their marching orders from this section of the BBS?

My wife would be in perfect agreement with your sentiment that people will collect any old rubbish – in her mind my collection of old airgun catalogues and advertising literature fall into just that category and if she had her way they would be consigned to the recycling bin. And when it comes to old, tattered empty pellet packets, well I daren’t accidentally leave any lying around! Perhaps women are right, collecting is man’s thing and we are all mad. Some of us are just a bit madder than others.