more idiots with air rifles

[ChrisC]

Rob - as one who has experienced racism, I assure you that someone preferring to speak their native language in front of someone who doesn't understand that language, is absolutely NOT racism.

It's perhaps discourteous, even rude, but it isn't racism.

Spot on Terry....although i can empathise a bit with Rob's viewpoint. It's the UK and the language is English. Until the time the Welsh vote to devolve .

I'm wondering if there was bit more going on behind the story though. having experienced a rather abusive taxi driver when at Castle Martin range (Pembrokeshire) a long time ago, i wonder if the locals had been grinding an axe for a while before the 'gun' incident. Remember the burning of the holiday cottages?

I know one thing though...personally, if i had bought the pub i would have made sure (and enjoyed it) that i learnt some general phrases and polite greetings in Welsh and promoted any sporting banter.

[fatttmannn]

Yes its racism. It cuts both ways.


The Welsh consider themselves a different race from the British even going down the route of a Welsh Parliament. Therefore it is racism and no getting away from it.

I like my family were born here, my Name is French, Hugenouet Protistant from South West France , forced to leave due to there relgion by Louis the 14th, my Mothers Family MC Carthy from West Cork - Galoglass and had to leave like so many due to the famine of the 1840s, , here grand parents on her mums side were German ,Hamblin like the town in Westphalia, Mercenaries who came to fight for Charles the 1st in the Civil Wars and stayed. Now despite all that mix I am Welsh/ British and proud of that. My Parliament -devolved in the Uk is hardly racism, so I find youre arguments at best baffaling

[Rob Edge]

Rob - as one who has experienced racism, I assure you that someone preferring to speak their native language in front of someone who doesn't understand that language, is absolutely NOT racism.

It's perhaps discourteous, even rude, but it isn't racism.

Sorry Terry but we will have to disagree. People have claimed that hanging a sign saying English language only is racist when this is England, part of the UK and the native tongue is English. If you live in France then learn French. If you don't choose to then make no complaint about being alienated. Wales is part of the UK and is controlled by the UK government so the native tongue is English. To speak Welsh or any other language excluding non speakers is discriminatory.

I like my family were born here, my Name is French, Hugenouet Protistant from South West France , forced to leave due to there relgion by Louis the 14th, my Mothers Family MC Carthy from West Cork - Galoglass and had to leave like so many due to the famine of the 1840s, , here grand parents on her mums side were German ,Hamblin like the town in Westphalia, Mercenaries who came to fight for Charles the 1st in the Civil Wars and stayed. Now despite all that mix I am Welsh/ British and proud of that. My Parliament -devolved in the Uk is hardly racism, so I find youre arguments at best baffaling

You can be Welsh, Scottish, Northern Irish or English but you are still a UK citizen with a native language it being English.

[angrybear]

I think you'll find that Welsh, Gaelic & Cornish are all recognised as languages spoken within geographical areas of the UK.

It's also true that all three were being spoken long before "English" came along.

[fatttmannn]

I think you'll find that Welsh, Gaelic & Cornish are all recognised as languages spoken within geographical areas of the UK.

It's also true that all three were being spoken long before "English" came along.

again 100% right, the Celtic culture and languages are at least 1,000 years older than English

[Rob Edge]

I think you'll find that Welsh, Gaelic & Cornish are all recognised as languages spoken within geographical areas of the UK.

It's also true that all three were being spoken long before "English" came along.

And if we were separate countries you would have a small point. Unfortunately for your argument we are now collectively the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland with a recognised language which is English. Racism works both ways as I said earlier in this thread, for example frog, chink, slope are all racist terms and are offensive to the person they are aimed at. The same could be said about speaking in a different language to cause deliberate offence. Pray tell me this is not racism just put in an acceptable way. The same applies to all nationalities that choose to reside in the UK. Accept that this is an English speaking nation.

[ChrisC]

I think you'll find that Welsh, Gaelic & Cornish are all recognised as languages spoken within geographical areas of the UK.

It's also true that all three were being spoken long before "English" came along.

again 100% right, the Celtic culture and languages are at least 1,000 years older than English

You really can't play those cards...go back far enough and it's sign language, grunting and cave painting, bit like Cleveland today.

Part of the UK and the language is English. I wonder what percentage of Wales can actually speak fluent Welsh?
Found this http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-20677528
And yet every road sign has English and Welsh at the cost of how much to the UK taxpayer?

[thisisdonald]

Rob, xenophobic little knobs like yourself are one of the reasons the Scots and the Welsh and the Irish want to be devolved from the UK.
It doesnt matter how many times you tell us that its racist to speak your own language in front of a staunchly proud UK citizen - I wont be reporting anyone for it soon.
Unlike you Im not afraid of a multicultural society, and Im not offended that my rights are being infringed every time I walk past a polish building site, or one of the many foreign shops in my town. Im not offended when foreign friends converse with each other in front of me in their native tongue, but I am offended that in this day and age there are still plonkers like you venting your victorian opinions about the place as if you are the last bastion of everything that is UK!

[Rob Edge]

Rob, xenophobic little knobs like yourself are one of the reasons the Scots and the Welsh and the Irish want to be devolved from the UK.
It doesnt matter how many times you tell us that its racist to speak your own language in front of a staunchly proud UK citizen - I wont be reporting anyone for it soon.
Unlike you Im not afraid of a multicultural society, and Im not offended that my rights are being infringed every time I walk past a polish building site, or one of the many foreign shops in my town. Im not offended when foreign friends converse with each other in front of me in their native tongue, but I am offended that in this day and age there are still plonkers like you venting your victorian opinions about the place as if you are the last bastion of everything that is UK!

Who's the knob now. Did you not read it in the papers that Scotland voted to stay within the UK with the rest of us racist knobs. Who gave you the right to judge me and accuse me of being xenophobic for pointing out a clear fact that language used can offend people whichever language it is spoken in. As for Victorian attitude you are not too far wrong. If you don't see that multiculturalism is a bad thing then you are truly deluded. We can all live happily together without it because firstly anyone choosing to settle here must be British, British Asian, British Afro-Caribbean etc, etc. The religious practices, customs etc can all be catered for but primarily if you live in a country which has embraced you, then at least do it the service of making the spoken language your first language and live as the rest of it's citizens do. Before you accuse me of being a BNP member I will tell you that I voted UKIP in the last election.

[ChrisC]

Rob, xenophobic little knobs like yourself are one of the reasons the Scots and the Welsh and the Irish want to be devolved from the UK.
It doesnt matter how many times you tell us that its racist to speak your own language in front of a staunchly proud UK citizen - I wont be reporting anyone for it soon.
Unlike you Im not afraid of a multicultural society, and Im not offended that my rights are being infringed every time I walk past a polish building site, or one of the many foreign shops in my town. Im not offended when foreign friends converse with each other in front of me in their native tongue, but I am offended that in this day and age there are still plonkers like you venting your victorian opinions about the place as if you are the last bastion of everything that is UK!

I know Rob can fight his corner but i find that a bit harsh Donald. The thread is about an incident between an English pub owner (in Wales) and native Welsh speakers. there's a few points in this.

1. it's up to the landlord/landlady to dictate what happens in their pub and conversely the drinkers can choose somewhere else to drink. Is is it rude in Wales to ask drinkers to order in English or rude to ask in Welsh when asked not to?...swings and roundabouts really.

2. The Welsh have a bit of a nationalistic history re the burning holiday cottages i mentioned earlier.

It's no secret that there are a minority of Welsh, Scottish and Irish that carry a chip on the shoulder when it comes to the English. we've seen it on here before and i've experienced it once myself a long time ago. I've also had the pleasure to mix with Welsh, Scottish and Irish shooters on both the FT and HFT circuits and have some VERY good friends across the borders.. the best wedding i ever attended was in Edinburgh as i wasn't allowed to buy a drink all night. I think the crew up there were determined to mock to tight jock theory but it's wasted on a Yorkshireman

I said earlier that i think the story in the OP was the culmination of multiple incidents where the landlord/landlady couldn't be arsed to learn a few polite bits of Welsh and this pissed off the locals. Once again we just don't have enough facts to make an accurate conclusion either way.

[Rob Edge]

I know Rob can fight his corner but i find that a bit harsh Donald. The thread is about an incident between an English pub owner (in Wales) and native Welsh speakers. there's a few points in this.

1. it's up to the landlord/landlady to dictate what happens in their pub and conversely the drinkers can choose somewhere else to drink. Is is it rude in Wales to ask drinkers to order in English or rude to ask in Welsh when asked not to?...swings and roundabouts really.

2. The Welsh have a bit of a nationalistic history re the burning holiday cottages i mentioned earlier.

It's no secret that there are a minority of Welsh, Scottish and Irish that carry a chip on the shoulder when it comes to the English. we've seen it on here before and i've experienced it once myself a long time ago. I've also had the pleasure to mix with Welsh, Scottish and Irish shooters on both the FT and HFT circuits and have some VERY good friends across the borders.. the best wedding i ever attended was in Edinburgh as i wasn't allowed to buy a drink all night. I think the crew up there were determined to mock to tight jock theory but it's wasted on a Yorkshireman

I said earlier that i think the story in the OP was the culmination of multiple incidents where the landlord/landlady couldn't be arsed to learn a few polite bits of Welsh and this pissed off the locals. Once again we just don't have enough facts to make an accurate conclusion either way.

The interesting statistic is that only 19% of the Welsh can be arsed to speak welsh so why does the UK taxpayer fund all those Welsh signs? Thanks for pointing out that most of us find conversation between shooters easy regardless of race. I think that can be extended to society in general and say most people in the UK find it easy to converse with all colours and creeds of their neighbours.

[ChrisC]

The interesting statistic is that only 19% of the Welsh can be arsed to speak welsh so why does the UK taxpayer fund all those Welsh signs? Thanks for pointing out that most of us find conversation between shooters easy regardless of race. I think that can be extended to society in general and say most people in the UK find it easy to converse with all colours and creeds of their neighbours.

What even Pakistani's?

That's a joke by the way

[thisisdonald]

Sorry rob.. i shouldnt have called you names.. i hadnt had my coffee when i typed that.. it was uncalled for.

But i stand by the rest of it and it doesnt surprise me that you voted ukip.

[Rob Edge]

What even Pakistani's?

That's a joke by the way

In my world people are people.

Sorry rob.. i shouldnt have called you names.. i hadnt had my coffee when i typed that.. it was uncalled for.

But i stand by the rest of it and it doesnt surprise me that you voted ukip.

Thanks for the apology. Just remember that racists come in all shapes, sizes and colours. Some people see things as a joke but others take offence and declare the comment to be racist.

[angrybear]

And if we were separate countries you would have a small point. Unfortunately for your argument we are now collectively the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland with a recognised language which is English. Racism works both ways as I said earlier in this thread, for example frog, chink, slope are all racist terms and are offensive to the person they are aimed at. The same could be said about speaking in a different language to cause deliberate offence. Pray tell me this is not racism just put in an acceptable way. The same applies to all nationalities that choose to reside in the UK. Accept that this is an English speaking nation.

England
Scotland
Wales

Three different countries, hint is in the names, or that they have their own national sports teams as well as combining in to team GB for some events.

Regardless, the fact remains that people in an area choosing to speak in that areas ancient language is NOT RACIST, because that is not what RACIST means !! it is simply not the correct WORD or TERM

As I said earlier it is discriminatory, might well be bigoted, is undoubtedly rude & probably ignorant but it can also simply be nationalistic pride, the desire to keep tradition alive &/or freedom of choice, but under legal definition it is not (yet) racist.