Reloading liability insurance ?

[taz2]

Is that what you're looking for?
This is an extract from the Birmingham Proof House web site.




Proof Testing of Ammunition and Explosive Powders for the Trade and Home Loader.

Under the rules imposed on Proof Houses in Europe and other countries, set by our governing body, the Commission Internationale Permanente (CIP).

Headquarters in Liege, Belgium - cartridge manufacturers are required to provide samples of their products to be subjected to test by the Proof House and, if satisfactory, may carry the Proof House and CIP mark (see right).

Although the same rules do not apply to home loaders, given that their products cannot be legally sold, in the interests of safety the Proof House affords those parties opportunity to batch test their ammunition to ensure that the associated breech pressures and velocities are within acceptable standards. By so doing it removes the potential for weapons being damaged, thereby injuring the user or, even worse, innocent bystanders. Previous tests of this nature in the past have indicated the poor standards adopted by such parties and the lack of uniformity between rounds of ammunition.

Similar tests can be made on various powder batches or powder types.

The ammunition is tested in the Proof House Laboratory using modern test guns which are linked to a computer to provide graphical presentations.

Please write, fax or telephone for details.

[tacfoley]

Is that what you're looking for?
This is an extract from the Birmingham Proof House web site.




Proof Testing of Ammunition and Explosive Powders for the Trade and Home Loader.

Under the rules imposed on Proof Houses in Europe and other countries, set by our governing body, the Commission Internationale Permanente (CIP).

Headquarters in Liege, Belgium - cartridge manufacturers are required to provide samples of their products to be subjected to test by the Proof House and, if satisfactory, may carry the Proof House and CIP mark (see right).

Although the same rules do not apply to home loaders, given that their products cannot be legally sold, in the interests of safety the Proof House affords those parties opportunity to batch test their ammunition to ensure that the associated breech pressures and velocities are within acceptable standards. By so doing it removes the potential for weapons being damaged, thereby injuring the user or, even worse, innocent bystanders. Previous tests of this nature in the past have indicated the poor standards adopted by such parties and the lack of uniformity between rounds of ammunition.

Similar tests can be made on various powder batches or powder types.

The ammunition is tested in the Proof House Laboratory using modern test guns which are linked to a computer to provide graphical presentations.

Please write, fax or telephone for details.

Taz - You. Are. Wasting. Your. Valuable. Time.

Sorry, Pal.

tac

[taz2]

Because, there is no law against it.

How can you be so certain in something you cannot prove?

Just by saying something in an adamant way does not make it true. Can you prove you position? Post the relevant Act of Parliament if you can.

You've gone very quiet all of a sudden.

[middaycowboy]

To get back to my original question, it seems the club my friend shoots in have decided if you reload ( for yourself ) you must take out 3rd party liability insurance to cover any accidents that may involve other members whilst shooting at the range and must not pass on any reloads even free ones to another member, looks like the thin end of the wedge to me , cheers Tezz

[taz2]

To get back to my original question, it seems the club my friend shoots in have decided if you reload ( for yourself ) you must take out 3rd party liability insurance to cover any accidents that may involve other members whilst shooting at the range and must not pass on any reloads even free ones to another member, looks like the thin end of the wedge to me , cheers Tezz

Well,
I think, as a general thing, if you're a member of any of the shooting bodies-- NRA NSRA etc etc -- you would be covered for all shooting related accidents.
In fact, the NRA insurers specifically mention hand loading, and, incidentally, cannon use
I couldn't comment on others.
Bit of a fag, I know, but you/ he/ all of us should join one of our shooting bodies. I don't want to get in a harangue over which one--- they're not all equal, you know!
He/ we/ all of us need to stick together.
Ps his club needs to get a bit of a grip with reality.
All the best,
David

[Dogbert]

This is the last time I'll put this information here.

The Firearms Act IS enforceable in Law. Breaking any of the provisions of the Firearms Act IS illegal.

That's it.

tac

Yes this is true. However there is no provision in any of the firearms acts that makes the sale of reloaded or unproved ammunition unlawful.

So yet again you have written something that doesn't help prove your case.

[Dogbert]

Is that what you're looking for?
This is an extract from the Birmingham Proof House web site.




Proof Testing of Ammunition and Explosive Powders for the Trade and Home Loader.

Under the rules imposed on Proof Houses in Europe and other countries, set by our governing body, the Commission Internationale Permanente (CIP).

Headquarters in Liege, Belgium - cartridge manufacturers are required to provide samples of their products to be subjected to test by the Proof House and, if satisfactory, may carry the Proof House and CIP mark (see right).

Although the same rules do not apply to home loaders, given that their products cannot be legally sold, in the interests of safety the Proof House affords those parties opportunity to batch test their ammunition to ensure that the associated breech pressures and velocities are within acceptable standards. By so doing it removes the potential for weapons being damaged, thereby injuring the user or, even worse, innocent bystanders. Previous tests of this nature in the past have indicated the poor standards adopted by such parties and the lack of uniformity between rounds of ammunition.

Similar tests can be made on various powder batches or powder types.

The ammunition is tested in the Proof House Laboratory using modern test guns which are linked to a computer to provide graphical presentations.

Please write, fax or telephone for details.

No. If the proof of ammunition were mandatory, someone would be able to quote the appropriate UK Act of Parliament and relevant paragraphs.

[Dogbert]

Taz - You. Are. Wasting. Your. Valuable. Time.

Sorry, Pal.

tac

Agreed. By posting more stuff that proves nothing!

[Dogbert]

You've gone very quiet all of a sudden.

Still here. Still waiting for you experts in Proof law to quote the provisions of the relevant UK legislation that apply.

[Dalua]

This is the last time I'll put this information here.

The Firearms Act IS enforceable in Law. Breaking any of the provisions of the Firearms Act IS illegal.

That's it.

tac

It really isn't an answer to Dogbert's interesting question though, is it?

We've established that non-RFD FAC-holders may sell firearms and ammuntion as long is it is not by way of trade or business.

What is it that makes their selling ammuntion they've made themselves unlawful?

[tacfoley]

It really isn't an answer to Dogbert's interesting question though, is it?

We've established that non-RFD FAC-holders may sell firearms and ammuntion as long is it is not by way of trade or business.

What is it that makes their selling ammuntion they've made themselves unlawful?

They are not selling ammunition that they have MADE for sale. They may sell - really, transfer the ownership - of ammunition made by the process that DOES include the compulsory legal requirement under the firearms Act of having been proofed by batch test. That ammunition is made by the usual makers of ammunition known to us all here.

I'm not sure what part of the law is so difficult to understand, so my advice is to read - again - the previously-quoted section of the Firearms Act that details the FACT that unless you are an RFD, and have subjected your ammunition to proof testing, you are breaking the law by doing making ammunition for sale - without being an RFD and without having submitted your ammunition for testing. In any event, simply doing it without being an RFD is an offence under the Firearms Act. We even had an RFD here on the thread TELL us that this is waht had to be done in order to comply with the law.

And the Firearms Act IS the Law passed by Parliament that covers the sale of ammunition and firearms, regardless of what dogbert holds, for some reason best known only to himself, as contrary to the fact. The wording of the Firearms Act is not open to discussion or interpretation, and if he is so keen to continue his ridiculous argument in the face of such obvious evidence, perhaps he can get off his butt and talk to the county Firearms and Explosives Licensing Department.

tac

[tacfoley]

In case it's too hard to follow, here is the extract from the Firearms Act -

Business and other transactions with firearms and ammunition.E+W+S(1)A person commits an offence if, by way of trade or business, he—
(a)manufactures, sells, transfers, repairs, tests or proves any firearm or ammunition to which section 1 of this Act applies, or a shot gun; F4. . .
(b)exposes for sale or transfer, or has in his possession for sale, transfer, repair, test or proof any such firearm or ammunition, or a shot gun, [F5or
(c)sells or transfers an air weapon, exposes such a weapon for sale or transfer or has such a weapon in his possession for sale or transfer,]
without being registered under this Act as a firearms dealer.

And RFD's are, as an RFD has already told us, required by the Act to submit their ammunition for proof testing.

tac

[Dogbert]

They are not selling ammunition that they have MADE for sale. They may sell - really, transfer the ownership - of ammunition made by the process that DOES include the compulsory legal requirement under the firearms Act of having been proofed by batch test. That ammunition is made by the usual makers of ammunition known to us all here.

I'm not sure what part of the law is so difficult to understand, so my advice is to read - again - the previously-quoted section of the Firearms Act that details the FACT that unless you are an RFD, and have subjected your ammunition to proof testing, you are breaking the law by doing making ammunition for sale - without being an RFD and without having submitted your ammunition for testing. In any event, simply doing it without being an RFD is an offence under the Firearms Act. We even had an RFD here on the thread TELL us that this is waht had to be done in order to comply with the law.

And the Firearms Act IS the Law passed by Parliament that covers the sale of ammunition and firearms, regardless of what dogbert holds, for some reason best known only to himself, as contrary to the fact. The wording of the Firearms Act is not open to discussion or interpretation, and if he is so keen to continue his ridiculous argument in the face of such obvious evidence, perhaps he can get off his butt and talk to the county Firearms and Explosives Licensing Department.

tac

More muddled logic. More mixing up the truth with supposition.

What I keep asking for is the section of the relevant UK Act of Parliament that makes the sale of un-proved ammunition unlawful.

Quoting what "an RFD here" said, doesn't remotely cut it. What is required is something that we can independently verify. i.e. a UK Statute or SI. Without wishing in any way to insult the person posting as an RFD, firstly we have no way of verifying that they are indeed and RFD, they could just as easily be a 14 year old in their bedroom and secondly just posting an opinion is in no way independently verifiable, unless of course they were to point to the relevant UK legislation.

We know that you strongly believe the proof of ammunition to be mandatory. However, if it were, you would be very easily be able to quote the UK law that made it mandatory. The fact that you can't, despite having had several weeks to locate such a law, is pretty strong evidence that no such law exists.

[Dogbert]

In case it's too hard to follow, here is the extract from the Firearms Act -

Business and other transactions with firearms and ammunition.E+W+S(1)A person commits an offence if, by way of trade or business, he—
(a)manufactures, sells, transfers, repairs, tests or proves any firearm or ammunition to which section 1 of this Act applies, or a shot gun; F4. . .
(b)exposes for sale or transfer, or has in his possession for sale, transfer, repair, test or proof any such firearm or ammunition, or a shot gun, [F5or
(c)sells or transfers an air weapon, exposes such a weapon for sale or transfer or has such a weapon in his possession for sale or transfer,]
without being registered under this Act as a firearms dealer.

And RFD's are, as an RFD has already told us, required by the Act to submit their ammunition for proof testing.

tac

Bless. Posting the same piece of the Firearms Act again, how sweet.

Now post the UK Act of Parliament and appropriate section that makes the proof of ammunition mandatory.

(You are stating that an RFD told you that RFDs are "required by the Act to submit their ammunition for proof testing", so come along then tell us which Act and which section makes this mandatory)

Bet you can't!

[Fenrir.2]

What precisely is your point, there is such a thing as common law offences which are not laid down by statute but are still enforceable by law. I think if you pop round next door and strangle your neighbour you will be convicted of the common law crime of murder. Why not just make up a batch of ammo and flog it and you will no doubt find out directly from the judge precisely what offence you have committed. Much easier than asking questions on the internet and getting answers you don't like.