really need some help guy's

[Craig-P]

My RFD uses a courier that's insured specifically for firearms. I'm unsure of all the RM pressure vessel legislation cobblers but the courier associated with my RFD knows its 'a firearm' in the box that he's picking up and therefore it's handled in the appropriate manner - meaning, no clueless RM clerk is going to poke and prod and impound. Type of firearm, I'd suggest, is pretty much ignored as to their mind all the legal documentation has been sorted at my RFD, so off it goes.

Craig.

[harvey_s]

Fine as far as it goes but you don't address the point of safety in transit which I understand is the reason given for refusal. Either an empty pressure vessel is dangerous or it isn't. So why should this particular item be singled out for special treatment when it isn't dangerous?
As you say-not complicated just a choice but I like to know the reason why an empty pressure vessel should be treated in this way. I'm genuinely puzzled.

I wasn't trying address any argument on the dangerous'ness of an empty cylinder...
However, as others have suggested the commercial clients can probably be trusted to abide by the T&C's of the carrier.
Whereas, as this thread so neatly demonstrates, the great British public show little if any willingness to even read the T&C's let alone abide by them....and therein I suspect lies your answer whether you like it or not

[Rapidnick]

I am obliged to my friends on here for the clarification which makes good sense although the discrimination aspect still makes me uneasy as does the dual standard applied. Presumably insurance is an important point here and if a 'professional' user of the mail system has an 'incident' with their consignment then it is they that will bear any associated costs arising from said incident.

[TigerTim]

From Parcelforce website:

Arms and Ammunition

Low-powered air weapons (air rifles, air guns and air pistols), together with lead pellets and other airgun and airsoft projectiles, can be sent but are subject to the following conditions:

These items must be sent on an express48 service only
These items must be sent via the Post Office® only (not via any other channel e.g.www.parcelforce.com, call-centre, reseller or Parcelforce Worldwide depot).
Enhanced compensation cover is not available (low-powered air rifles, air guns or air pistols and lead pellets and other airgun and airsoft projectiles will only be covered up to the maximum amount of inclusive cover for express48).
Note: Low powered air weapons are defined as air rifles, air guns or air pistols capable of discharging a missile so that the missile has, on being discharged from the muzzle of the weapon, kinetic energy not in excess, in the case of an air pistol, of 6ft lb. or, in the case of an air weapon other than air pistol, of 12 ft. lb. Any air rifle, air gun or air pistol which uses or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system is a prohibited weapon and cannot be sent.

[angrybear]

From Parcelforce website:

Arms and Ammunition

Low-powered air weapons (air rifles, air guns and air pistols), together with lead pellets and other airgun and airsoft projectiles, can be sent but are subject to the following conditions:

These items must be sent on an express48 service only
These items must be sent via the Post Office® only (not via any other channel e.g.www.parcelforce.com, call-centre, reseller or Parcelforce Worldwide depot).
Enhanced compensation cover is not available (low-powered air rifles, air guns or air pistols and lead pellets and other airgun and airsoft projectiles will only be covered up to the maximum amount of inclusive cover for express48).
Note: Low powered air weapons are defined as air rifles, air guns or air pistols capable of discharging a missile so that the missile has, on being discharged from the muzzle of the weapon, kinetic energy not in excess, in the case of an air pistol, of 6ft lb. or, in the case of an air weapon other than air pistol, of 12 ft. lb. Any air rifle, air gun or air pistol which uses or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system is a prohibited weapon and cannot be sent.

Yes thanks, we know that rule allows air guns

the issue is the other rule rule that prohibits Gases, including flammable, non-flammable, toxic and compressed gases ( including new and used gas cylinders, butane, ethane, propane refills for lighters, fire extinguishers and scuba tanks) has been interpreted as also prohibiting the air tube/buddy bottle of a pre-charged air gun, because it is a compressed gas cylinder.

so there is no problem with a springer but there is with a pre charge.

That's the whole point

[nimrod177]

I am obliged to my friends on here for the clarification which makes good sense although the discrimination aspect still makes me uneasy as does the dual standard applied. Presumably insurance is an important point here and if a 'professional' user of the mail system has an 'incident' with their consignment then it is they that will bear any associated costs arising from said incident.

This is not me being cynical in any way but commercially in our store alone we send/receive on average 30-40 guns a week at £12 a pop to p/force. This equates to £25k a year. We have three stores it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that p/force will want a contract where they are willing to accept firearms of all descriptions. RFD's will make up some considerable income for the company whereas the general public will not. I know of one rfd that makes custom build rifles that sent via p/force and they lost his £15k action he had been working on for 8 months. He received no compensation. If anyone wishes to flout the rules then they can but they run the risk. He abided by the rules and was still out of pocket. If we send a "normal"item via p/force they charge £6 upto 36kg's. Firearms are charged at £12. That is the extra insurance. There are a few manufacturers that send the rifles out with air in the cylinders and they also come via p/force 48/24 hrs. I have never been able to find the reason the are able to do this but probably again comes down to "commercial" contract.
I can well understand why the couriers are reluctant to courier firearms and here are two very good reasons.
1. I received a shotgun from a customer assumed to be a farmer for repair. The packaging consisted of 2x fertilizers bags held together with bailer twine and a note stuck to the outside that read "don't work please fix and return to the pub on the label provided as will be away for a few weeks. Landlord knows to expect it"
2. HW97 received in green gun bag (yes did turn up in a green gun slip not even wrapped to conceal it). Covering letter said "as per t/call likes jsb's" No name, no address, no description of fault and no return address. The zip on the case wasn't even padlocked.
Now i am well aware the majority of the shooters are perfectly sensible but unfortunately there are complete and utter idiots. They are the ones who have ruined it for the rest of you sensible and hard working guys out there. Unfortunately every one gets tarred with the same brush. And for those that bend or break the rules and get away with it well done. You potentially spoil it for everyone else. There are already shotgun idiots armed with fertilizer bags and bailer twine doing enough damage to our sport as it is.
Sorry Rapidnick this last bit was not aimed at you but an explanation why the rfd's can send and joe public cannot or is restricted on what they send. But to be fair on p/force i can see their point of view. The two examples are recent ones. 97 boy spoke to me and got a pretty solid re-education on air gun safety. Shot gun man was told to come collect when he got home.

[tsuobi]

An extract from the Violent Crime reduction Act 2006 which deals with dealer or trade sales.

31 Prohibition on sale or transfer of air weapons except by registered dealers
(1) In subsection (1) of section 3 of the 1968 Act (offence for a person other than a
registered firearms dealer to sell etc. a firearm or ammunition by way of trade
or business), at the end of paragraph (b) insert “or
(c) sells or transfers an air weapon, exposes such a weapon for sale
or transfer or has such a weapon in his possession for sale or
transfer,”.
(2) In section 40(2) of that Act (which excludes air weapons from the requirements
to keep a register of transactions), omit the words from “to firearms” to
“therein”.
(3) In section 57(4) of that Act (interpretation), in the definition of “firearms
dealer”, for the words from “manufactures” onwards substitute—
“(a) manufactures, sells, transfers, repairs, tests or proves
firearms or ammunition to which section 1 of this Act
applies or shot guns; or
(b) sells or transfers air weapons.”
32 Sales of air weapons by way of trade or business to be face to face
(1) This section applies where a person sells an air weapon by way of trade or
business to an individual in Great Britain who is not registered as a firearms
dealer.
(2) A person is guilty of an offence if, for the purposes of the sale, he transfers
possession of the air weapon to the buyer otherwise than at a time when both—
(a) the buyer, and
(b) either the seller or a representative of his,
are present in person.

This is an extract from the BASC guidance to this act relating to private sales. http://basc.org.uk/firearms/violent-...reduction-act/

What about private sales?
Private sales are unaffected and air guns sold privately may still be sent by post, (more on
this later). Collectors and private individuals who buy a ‘job lot’ of air guns, of which
some are repaired and refurbished as part of a hobby, may then sell them on, even in a
large batch. The test for an offence is whether the person is selling ‘by way of trade or
business’. This could be construed as specifically advertising as an air gun retailer or
attaching such air gun sales to an existing business, even though the primary trade is not
air gun related. In borderline cases, only a court could provide a final decision as to
whether a sale was by way of trade or business.


This is the bit from the guidance that deals with the (more on this later).

What about private sales?
Private sales do not have to be face-to-face, but remember that only persons aged 18 years
or over may purchase air weapons, component parts, detachable sound moderators and
ammunition for air weapons.
If you sell air weapons or their ammunition to people under 18 years old, both the seller
and young person would commit an offence (more about this in the next section). Private
sales may take place by post, but you must verify the age of the person to whom you are
selling. If the air weapon is received through the post by someone under 18 years of age
regardless of whether it is intended to reach an older person, both parties commit an
offence. Selling ammunition for air weapons is not restricted to RFD’s but it must only be
sold to persons aged 18 years or older.
Although it is illegal to sell an air gun or its ammunition to under 18s, there is a defence if
you can prove that you believed the young person was over 18 or that you had reasonable
grounds for believing so.

I guess that covers the legal aspect of whether you can or cannot sell privately and do so by post. The point left is which courier to use. I have spoken to my RFD and he uses Fedex for firearms and air rifles.

[Garvin]

Can any of the drivers on here pick it up and drop it off for you? Failing that do what I insist on doing now and bung an RFD £25 and have it delivered, securely and legally.

Craig

I agree, apart from collection in person, for valuable items RFD to RFD is probably the only safe route these days, if it's too big for RMSD and the Parcelforce £100 maximum insurance isn't sufficient.

Think of the extra cost as a tax on the sport/hobby, imposed by the antis at the top of the Royal Mail Group...

[ljgolf@vdubb.or]

why don't you use a local gun shop and save all this hasle ,if it goes wrong and you have to send it back what you gain you lose . all ways use good local shop

[bigtoe01]

Meets such as Micks Boinger bash, HFT and FT competitions, clubs, and just travelling down to pick up are seriously getting the only way to do it now.

TNT offer a reasonable service available with discount to GTA members for RFD's, you can ship empty air cylinders on this service HOWEVER the compensation is small like the 48hr service.

In the end shipping airguns has not only become risky due to loss but also risky due to items being seized and destroyed...its no longer worth the risk imo.

Really the GTA should together with BASC now work on a national service with fixed pricing that RFD's can offer for shipping, the RFD does not even need to see the gun, he just has to organise collection and delivery from end user to end user for unlicensed air guns..this service could have full compensation etc and be a good earner for the RFD's.

I have already worked with 1 RFD who is considering this kind of service, however the compensation is still not where it needs to be.

[mostlyharmless]

Guys I really cant thank you all enough for all your help and priceless advice

I really have had a nightmare trying to sort this out so much so that even the seller has had enough of me

Anyways I just wanted to share with you guys should you find yourself in the same position I have found a courier who will transport airguns and they are ukmail.com and at very good prices too!

Once again thanks for all the offers of help and understanding as many folks are.not like this!

Big thumbs up.to you all

Sorry fog horn, but they do not knowingly deliver air rifles or pistols (under the T&C's - no firearms or weapon) for non account retail/domestic customers.
You have been given the wrong information
This link refers - :https://www.ukmail.com/parcel-services

[happydad]

hi,
i have used this courier service http://www.awexpress.com/ to send a rifle to Scotland with no problems, they are more than happy to take air rifles. contact Paul Wasson. although slightly more expensive than RM they picked up and delivered when state and I know that the buyer was more than happy with the service that he received from this company.

I have sent/received rifle parts/actions via RM and have never had a problem as yet. although when i have bought rifles from GS i have always done it FTF and i am willing to drive a reasonable distance to do so, only yesterday (30/11/14) i did a round trip of 140 miles to buy a couple of dive cylinders so that i could inspect them inside & out, even relatively new/new cylinders can develop rust on the inside.

ATB
Mike

[barrel]

Is it just me who reads a thread like this and because its so full of contradictions its value is really diminished. Its a useful debate and the truth is contained within but there is just too much erroneous information, should have checked before I started but is there a sticky that contains just the facts?.



Kindest regards


Barrel

[gordon]

I know it`s not always possible for everyone to drive and collect, but from my point of view iv`e bought a number of rifles off this site and others. The cost was approximately the same in fuel ( diesel ) as it would have cost to have them posted. The last trip was 10 hours in total, but that was mainly due to getting stuck in football traffic both ways . But at least i collected the gun without the risk.