I'm looking for an alternative to needle roller bearings (springers)

[Loki_79]

also item #161101602948 looks like it might be small enough to fit in a piston @ 21mm ? however 8mm bore too tight for a TX / HW IIRC...

From my measurements on a 25mm piston, it would need to be 10mm ID and 22mm OD to fit perfectly. I can't find one though..

[vobster]

I just caved in and ordered some also...however, been thinking today, I think the ultimate setup would be rotating piston and rotating comp tube on an under lever rifle...not sure if it could be done however. I have an idea how it could be done BUT it would take some surgery unless the gun was designed that way...food for thought.

Rotating comp tube! Love it, keep it up

[brucegill]

Hhaha. I caved in too lol. Always assumed it was a bit of a gimmick or if it would survive for long. But winter is here, need a few projects.

I was just thinking about a rotating comp tube, and if it would help, or even work. Spooky.

[vobster]

From my measurements on a 25mm piston, it would need to be 10mm ID and 22mm OD to fit perfectly. I can't find one though..

No, I cant either. I have one, which I found in an adjustable TFT stand.

[slinger69]

I have only one needle roller bearing that will fit the piston of a hw97, they seem to be as rare as a very rare thing as no one seems to sell them in the correct size.

Alternatives? Needle rollers really kill the twist on firing, standard greased washers arent even close.

Has anyone found something else that works? PTFE washers etc?

Thanks!

I'm most interested to learn about this please, so:

Does this twist come from the spring unwinding as it is released from compression?

Does this turning effort cause muzzle movement and/or anything else deteremental?

If these needle rollers are so economical as we see here and effective too, why don't the o/e engineers specify them, given the economy of scale firms like AA & Weirauch have?

Should every springer Have them?

Many thanks for your expertise...

[vobster]

Does this twist come from the spring unwinding as it is released from compression?..... Yes.

Does this turning effort cause muzzle movement and/or anything else deteremental?......I find rifles can pull right, but with a bearing they are straight, forward-back.

If these needle rollers are so economical as we see here and effective too, why don't the o/e engineers specify them, given the economy of scale firms like AA & Weirauch have?.......They are not really designed for high compression load, just light load and twisting.

Should every springer Have them?...ask me in ten or twenty years if one has come apart. It could be bad, small hardened bits of metal floating around inside your springer.

Buyer beware!

[bigtoe01]

Does this twist come from the spring unwinding as it is released from compression?..... Yes.

Does this turning effort cause muzzle movement and/or anything else deteremental?......I find rifles can pull right, but with a bearing they are straight, forward-back.

If these needle rollers are so economical as we see here and effective too, why don't the o/e engineers specify them, given the economy of scale firms like AA & Weirauch have?.......They are not really designed for high compression load, just light load and twisting.

Should every springer Have them?...ask me in ten or twenty years if one has come apart. It could be bad, small hardened bits of metal floating around inside your springer.

Buyer beware!

The idea is its not being smashed as such at the trigger end, just having differing loads applied to it, plus the spring only needs a bearing really at one end and either would do with the rear being the easy option.

For the front a tophat and slip washer is all thats needed really, i usually run the same on the rear (slip washer and bearing washer) but decided to give one of these a go on the TX....so we shall see.

[FPoole]

I have several I removed from a couple of guns. A tuner over here used to use them, but I really didn't notice an accuracy difference. The bearing is sandwiched between 2 thin hardened washers so the pieces would be captured if it failed. I have 1 for the piston as well and will try to find it. There really isn't much load on a TX because it takes years and years to wear the paint on the end plug with just a washer in place. I may drop some of the bearings back in 1 of my guns, but don't hold your breath. On a FAC TX there isn't room due to coil bind unless you use a shorter spring. One TX I own had an Ox spring with the bearings on both ends and it had survived for many 1,000's of shots with no wear. It was an ex U.S. and World champ FT gun and is still very accurate, even without the bearings.

[Jonas]

I used to own a Pro Sport with a thrust bearing between rear guide and trigger block. The guide was custom made to accept one half of the bearing, the other half was set in the trigger block. This was a roller bearing consisting of three parts if I remember correctly.
I too did not notice any difference in accuracy. It was still running the full 98mm stroke and was very hold sensitive.

[slugger]

just skimmed through the thread [late for work] lol .. so appologies if its already been mentioned, but does anyone have a link for a thrust baering that would fit my tx ?

[TonyL]

I'm most interested to learn about this please, so:

Does this twist come from the spring unwinding as it is released from compression?

Does this turning effort cause muzzle movement and/or anything else deteremental?

If these needle rollers are so economical as we see here and effective too, why don't the o/e engineers specify them, given the economy of scale firms like AA & Weirauch have?

Should every springer Have them?

Many thanks for your expertise...

Hi Gwyn,

Yes, the idea would be to negate the effect of twist from the spring unwinding.

I've mentioned this example on a couple of other threads.....

A few months ago I had the pleasure of shooting Kieran Turner's LGV Comp Ultra. As most will be aware, this rifle has a rotating piston. Kieran had not done anything other than strip, degrease and relube. And it shot beautifully.

Indoor range, high mag scope. Very, very accurate and easy to use. However, probably due to the fact that it was SO refined to shoot and, possibly, the high mag scope, a small twisting movement was evident. This is what keeps making me think that a bearing arrangement (however conceived - flat surfaces / thrust washers etc) would be preferable to a rotating piston, isolating any rotation WITHIN the piston body and not bring transferred to the cylinder walls via the rotating piston. Nothing new and many before have thought along these lines. Many also having put it into practice....Unlike me, where it's just in my head. Must play with this.

[vobster]

Well, its nice to hear from a few people that the trust bearings have not flown apart

To give an example of the benefits of fitting one, my old brum longbow is a good example. 10ftlb, plently of recoil and a twist/pull, which with the wrong hold, send a pellet right. Most days I dont see it if I'm on the ball, but it will pop up if my mind wanders.
With the bearing fitted the recoil is straight, yes I still need to be very mindful how I hold it as its a lively little bugger, but I find the rifle easier to shoot with the bearing in, than out.
I know this rifle well, and shot it almost exclusively for 2 years most weekends in hft comps, so any changes I make to it are pretty obvious.

[Loki_79]

No, I cant either. I have one, which I found in an adjustable TFT stand.

Found one: http://www.nadella.js.cn/bearings/AX1022.html

A few places appear stock them, try phoning Brammer.

[vobster]

Found one: http://www.nadella.js.cn/bearings/AX1022.html

A few places appear stock them, try phoning Brammer.

Sweet!

[Artfull-Bodger]

Well, its nice to hear from a few people that the trust bearings have not flown apart

To give an example of the benefits of fitting one, my old brum longbow is a good example. 10ftlb, plently of recoil and a twist/pull, which with the wrong hold, send a pellet right. Most days I dont see it if I'm on the ball, but it will pop up if my mind wanders.
With the bearing fitted the recoil is straight, yes I still need to be very mindful how I hold it as its a lively little bugger, but I find the rifle easier to shoot with the bearing in, than out.
I know this rifle well, and shot it almost exclusively for 2 years most weekends in hft comps, so any changes I make to it are pretty obvious.

I have been running a test with a bearing on the spring guide on my HW77 and BSA Mercury, a couple of thousand shots later, not even a mark on the slip washers, which is logical as delrin survives this task so why wouldn't a hardened and ground lubricated bearing?

And there is a definite difference with and without the bearing, you don't need the piston to rotate if you cancel out the motion that rotates it in the first place, but if your already running a rotating piston (TX,Pro Sport etc) your not going to benefit , it only works on non rotating pistons because they don't rotate, that's the whole point really!