King manufacturing co 500 shot bb gun - info need on how it works

[wsmk2]

Thanks for the offer - I will take some pics tomorrow morning - the probe itself is too battered to use again as I had to drift it out. It would be a shame not to get it going again.

[wsmk2]

Hi - I have just sent some email pics - cheers Mick.

[Benelli B76]

Seems like very similar gravity system used on the HAENEL 100 pistol. It also has a feeder probe on the end of the piston. The bb feed into the hole on top of the internal barrel and are held by a little wire retainer. As the pistol is fired the probe pushes through behind the bb and frees it at the same time as the air pulse follows through. You then have to tip the muzzle up so another bb from the concentric magazine falls into the breach hole. I wonder who copied who ?

Baz

[gedfinn 2]

Mick,
No replacement probes I am afraid. Even in America after 80 years you will have great difficulty finding spares. The bb gun in USA was essentially a throw away item if it broke. These probes rarely break unless unsuitable/ wrong size bbs have been used.
I could repair it for you ( probably) if you can email me some photos of the rifle. Good quality pics especially of the top of the action and barrel. But I am in Telford,Shropshire. Where are you....? If you can deliver it or post I am pretty sure I can repair it, but I need the photos first.
Pete.

Cheers to you both.


Hiya mate, I replied to your thread as you seem to be the UK guru ! Mr Fletcher from the USA has seen them all ( I bet )

I have 2, A King , 1000 Shot, & a Single shot Mod No 21,
The 1000 shot needs a piston seal & Is in " Used " condition, ? Shoots poorly ,
The Single shot shoots very well, Burying a BB full length into my cherry tree at a couple of yards, Its also in very good condition, ( Patent 1907-1913 ? )

The 1000 shot is a big gun, ( & Takes some cocking ) I am sure if the piston seal was replace it would shoot very well !
The Mod 21 is a tiny gun in comparison, Very good condition & shoots well, From memory I paid £15 for the 1000 shot & £ 18 for the Single one,
A couple of Pics to peruse .
Ged

[wsmk2]

Its just a smaller version of the shot tube in my King. Amazing what you can learn by picking up a new curiosity and researching it. I've learnt a lot in 24 hrs!

[wsmk2]

Hi gedfinn - both of these look much bigger than mine with proper stock wood. The 500 shot must have been a first bb gun?
Its still hard to cock though and they must have put proper strength springs in them. Both lovely guns those!

[Ormicron]

Just a thought, in your first post you state that the gun is a 2136, if it's a 500 repeater then should that be 2236? Daisy owned King and by 1936/41 King was making Daisy designs, Daisy used King as a budget range (I have a lovely No5 slide action King which is really a Daisy 105/107, they dumped them as Kings because they are harder to cock than a Model 25).

As they still make Red Ryders and sell them here in the UK I wonder if the probes are interchangeable?

Ormicron

[flatrajectory]

Cheers to you both.


Hiya mate, I replied to your thread as you seem to be the UK guru ! Mr Fletcher from the USA has seen them all ( I bet )

I have 2, A King , 1000 Shot, & a Single shot Mod No 21,
The 1000 shot needs a piston seal & Is in " Used " condition, ? Shoots poorly ,
The Single shot shoots very well, Burying a BB full length into my cherry tree at a couple of yards, Its also in very good condition, ( Patent 1907-1913 ? )

The 1000 shot is a big gun, ( & Takes some cocking ) I am sure if the piston seal was replace it would shoot very well !
The Mod 21 is a tiny gun in comparison, Very good condition & shoots well, From memory I paid £15 for the 1000 shot & £ 18 for the Single one,
A couple of Pics to peruse .
Ged

Gedders!!!,
You are alive and well my friend, just out of hibernation I presume..?

A nice pair of bb guns you have there mate. The 1000 shot is a proper mans bb gun for sure. I am also sure a man of your caliber can sort a piston seal for it.
Pete.

[flatrajectory]

Just a thought, in your first post you state that the gun is a 2136, if it's a 500 repeater then should that be 2236? Daisy owned King and by 1936/41 King was making Daisy designs, Daisy used King as a budget range (I have a lovely No5 slide action King which is really a Daisy 105/107, they dumped them as Kings because they are harder to cock than a Model 25).

As they still make Red Ryders and sell them here in the UK I wonder if the probes are interchangeable?

Ormicron

Hello Omicron,
It has been a few years since I last stripped a King bb gun down but it may be possible to use a bb probe from a modern Daisy to repair it ,as you say.
The op is sending me his King 500 shot for repair.
Pete.

[wsmk2]

Hi - I think your right it is a model 2236 ! Can't check as I have parceled it up.

[DT Fletcher]

You guys probably have little awareness but the best BB gun shooters were the Benjamin models C,D,E,F,G that were Lead Air Rifle shot muzzle loaded straight pump pneumatics. Daisy, King, etc were toys compared to the REAL Benjamin Air Rifle. In, "It's a Daisy" by Cass Hough(sp?), son of the Daisy Co president, he wanted and asked for a Benjamin BB gun for Christmas and was disappointed in receiving only a Daisy.

When I first started collecting air guns in the '80s, went to all the firearms shops in the area and bought whatever old air guns they had. Those first finds included a Benjamin model G. Had absolutely no idea what the heck the thing did. Couldn't believe that they actually made muzzle loading BB guns. But, they did, for over 40 years during the golden age of BB guns.

The old Benjamin muzzle loaders are a lot of fun, once made serviceable. It's actually not that hard to work on them, since they were specifically made to be serviced by the owner. No parts are available but it's fairly easy to make what you need. If anyone decides to go into one of these for the first time; however, ask for some directions and a schematic.

I have little doubt that the American preference for the pump pneumatic air gun type is because of the early Benjamin air rifles. Without it, America likely would have gone another way.

[flatrajectory]

Dean,
Those early Benjamins are never seen this side of the pond. I am 65 y.o. ,been into airguns since I was 6 years old and have NEVER seen one of those early models. In fact, even the Benjamin multi pump rifles of the 70's and 80's ( models 3xx) are not very common compared to Crosman and Sheridan models.
Maybe Benjamin did not have the resources to advertise or find agents in the UK.....?
I have a 312 with the 'corn cob' pump handle which I rate highly.....even over the prettier Sheridans. It is a compact ,accurate powerhouse, a keeper for me.
I believe those early ' letter' models are quite rare in the States too, aren't they..?

Pete.

[gedfinn 2]

You guys probably have little awareness but the best BB gun shooters were the Benjamin models C,D,E,F,G that were Lead Air Rifle shot muzzle loaded straight pump pneumatics. Daisy, King, etc were toys compared to the REAL Benjamin Air Rifle. In, "It's a Daisy" by Cass Hough(sp?), son of the Daisy Co president, he wanted and asked for a Benjamin BB gun for Christmas and was disappointed in receiving only a Daisy.

When I first started collecting air guns in the '80s, went to all the firearms shops in the area and bought whatever old air guns they had. Those first finds included a Benjamin model G. Had absolutely no idea what the heck the thing did. Couldn't believe that they actually made muzzle loading BB guns. But, they did, for over 40 years during the golden age of BB guns.

The old Benjamin muzzle loaders are a lot of fun, once made serviceable. It's actually not that hard to work on them, since they were specifically made to be serviced by the owner. No parts are available but it's fairly easy to make what you need. If anyone decides to go into one of these for the first time; however, ask for some directions and a schematic.

I have little doubt that the American preference for the pump pneumatic air gun type is because of the early Benjamin air rifles. Without it, America likely would have gone another way.

Hiya mate ( & All )
I do still have a number of " Pumpers " but this is the rarest !

Its a " BAHCO " Mod No1S, ( Its in the Blue Book )
Its manufacture is prior to 1905 , >177 ish multipump , All brass nickel plated. Made in Sweden before being copied & renamed " The Swedish Excellent "
Ged.

[DT Fletcher]

Dean,
Those early Benjamins are never seen this side of the pond. I am 65 y.o. ,been into airguns since I was 6 years old and have NEVER seen one of those early models. In fact, even the Benjamin multi pump rifles of the 70's and 80's ( models 3xx) are not very common compared to Crosman and Sheridan models.
Maybe Benjamin did not have the resources to advertise or find agents in the UK.....?
I have a 312 with the 'corn cob' pump handle which I rate highly.....even over the prettier Sheridans. It is a compact ,accurate powerhouse, a keeper for me.
I believe those early ' letter' models are quite rare in the States too, aren't they..?

Pete.

Some of the very earliest Benjamins, between about 1902 and 1910 ..ish, before production of the model C types, the Benjamin Air Rifle Co did export to the UK. The 1902 that you see in my book is from Beeman's collection and he got it for $10 from a guy in the UK. A nice 1902 could bring thousand+ today. It's basically state your own price, since they all but never come up for sale. But, they're there with you guys in the UK. Chances are you might see it and think it's only a toy gun, which it sort of was. The barrel is underneath the pump tube and it's a straight wooden hand pump. No markings other than on the stock; which is easy to miss. These are small guns. The rarest of the rare are the detachable pump versions. No known examples exist. I have the original flyer that introduces it to the UK market. I'm sure that they show up at the boot sales for all but nothing.

There's actually a pretty good reason that the early Benjamin models went to the UK there was a huge price war by Daisy at the timed. They used their manufacturing prowess to sell huge numbers of air gun well below other air gun manufacturers. WR Benjamin had an easy alternative than to try and buck Daisy, the steamboats to New Orleans and beyond, docked right outside his business doorstep plus there was a merchants exchange a couple blocks away were he could get immediate payment for his shipments to the UK.

I know you guys apparently never got the later (post 1910) guns or they are at least very rare. Would have to import one from the US, but, the model E and F are pretty darn common even today. Just the thing for a guy who wants an air gun none of his buddies can get their hands on. The super prize of early Benjamins are the Automatic repeaters. Very rare even here. But, a properly operating Automatic/600 is pure air gun joy.

[flatrajectory]

Thanks for the history lesson Dean. I will,as always, keep my eyes peeled for any interesting old airguns but I am not holding my breath until finding an early Benjy........!.

Pete.