Reply With QuoteHi Jochen,Originally Posted by aimless
many thanks for the photos, these are realy great rifles, it's amazeing how many are still in very good condition and working order.
Hi, probably you are interested in some closer looks and more details of this pinnacle of engineering in its day. There is a lot of information you can find at the web. So I will post here some details for potential buyers.
I have two of them: one is 4,5 mm / . 177 , the other 8mm/ .32 (?) . Both barrels are rifled. The recoil plate is bakelite and the power of the gun can be regulated. At the present time I shoot the 8 mm-version with plastic-BBs. The reservoirs are not matching numbers, because the were given back (to the dealer?) to get refilled. The power and penetration can be seen on the picture of the chip-board (shot made with lead-BB).
At one picture you can see the list of serial numbers I found out at www and auction-pictures.
I try in my humble english to answer questions....
best regards, Jochen
all pictures can be enlarged
rifle left:
http://sta.sh/0emqlawjxao
rifle close look
http://sta.sh/02a3k3ihoceb
close look engraving:
http://sta.sh/0262b32u4lph
interior sytem:
http://sta.sh/020uretssu99
position of serial numbers:
http://sta.sh/0xroe1d5auf
recoil plate
http://sta.sh/02c2av6d8epv
trigger system
http://sta.sh/0urxh8jfgbv
reservoir (interior / not original)
http://sta.sh/024jr7vpwq1m
engraving cannons (big calibers?)
http://sta.sh/0irc0mpzg6b
engraving balloon (small calibers?)
http://sta.sh/02c40th6w4u1
serial numbers known
http://sta.sh/0i59yi6m3cv
penetration cal. 8 mm
http://sta.sh/01051oj6ignx
5 shots at 10 meters (8mm BBs)
http://sta.sh/0yfhxsabn18
Last edited by aimless; 05-01-2015 at 11:26 AM.
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Hi Jochen,
many thanks for the photos, these are realy great rifles, it's amazeing how many are still in very good condition and working order.
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Can't recall if the original selling price for a Giffard is known? Would be nice to know.
I think it was a high priced gun in it's day and that was one of the reasons it didn't do well. Then, since getting CO2 refills was a hassle, they tended to sit around in the gun closet. Plus, there had to have been disappointment in the lower than the overhyped power of the gun. They're in great shape because they haven't been shot. Even today, I suspect that the vast majority of Giffard rifles are sitting around.... just like they've been sitting around for the last 135 years.
Seeing the pictures (thanks!) realized I had never seen the internals before. Doesn't get much simpler than that. Didn't realize (never thought about it, actually) that the exhaust valve is contained inside the CO2 tank. Can't think of another CO2 gun with this arrangement. The Crosman CG has a valve on the tank but it's not the exhaust valve. This unique exhaust valve arrangement of the Giffard makes it pretty difficult to attach any sort of modern tank. Would need a special adaptor to the modern tank that includes it's own exhaust valve. Doable but certainly not easy.
Last edited by DT Fletcher; 05-01-2015 at 09:45 AM.
Last edited by aimless; 05-01-2015 at 11:31 AM. Reason: wrong link
Registered User
As far as I know most antique, ball, butt , barrel reservoir guns and air canes have the exhaust valves in the reservoirs, these are compressed air guns, which are pre Giffard guns and are easily converted to Co2 use by using a modern valve material, as I have done with all the ones I own, the part that should not be there shown in Aimless's picture is the part that seems to be entwined in the middle of the exhaust valve spring, which looks like it has been put there to support a broken exhaust valve spring, as mentioned by Mr Fletcher they are very simple valve mechanisms, and when resealed will last many years of use before requiring a reseal if at all, I use 95 shore hardness polyurethane in all of the ones I own.
Regards, Lawrie.
Last edited by Lawrie Amatruda; 05-01-2015 at 11:32 AM.
Lawrie, you are right! The small spring was broken and someone has turned this piece to connect the two parts. I have now exchanged all three pieces and put in a new spring.
http://sta.sh/012orxkwwmah
the green arrows is the radial seal-line, the red one is the movement of the firing-pin and the blue gap shows the sealing for the whole containt (dismantled)..
Last edited by aimless; 05-01-2015 at 11:49 AM.
Registered User
Hi Aimless,
The biggest problem I had when I started resealing these guns was not having the right tool to disassemble the valve from the reservoir, but I got a friend to make one for me some years ago, and is now a very simple matter to take it apart, I presume you have your own method to do this!.
Cheers, Lawrie.
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Hi l have just aquired a original catalouge from the D'armes et Cycles Desaint-Etienne, which as the Giffard rifles for sale with starting prices at 25-80 which is less than their cheapest singal barrel shotgun at 35-50, and the pistols at 15-40 all of which must be Francs, as it's all in French, and there is a latest date of 1911 for testimonials, which is later than l thought they were still being made/sold?, hope this helps.
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My point was that it would not be possible to attach a modern tank in anyway to replace the original Giffard tank because of the exhaust valve being in the tank: an exhaust valve is something no modern air gun tank has. My original vision was attaching a modern paintball tank to a Giffard. However, can't do that without building a special adaptor with exhaust valve.
You are indeed correct that all the old ball/butt, etc reservoir guns had the exhaust valve inside the tank. Off the top of my head, I think the Giffard is the last of that breed. Can't think of another gas or pcp gun again being made this way. Sort of emphasizes how the Giffard, although a CO2 gun, technically, was still an old style 19th century air gun.
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Very nice,thanks for sharing.
Registered User
What we now need is a comparable from the French catalog, that is, a gun model that we can compare prices with the same gun in /US catalogs of the same time. Seems to be about as or more expensive as a low end firearm.
Had never seen either catalog page. They really tell the story, this is not an air gun in the American marketing sense. There appears to be no concept of selling these to boys or young men. This is a rich man's toy. It's the Beeman super premium gun of it's time. No bother about refilling those tanks. Just have a servant run down to the factory for things like that... it's a parlor gun.
Are they accurate with proper ammo?
both rifles have the front-sight very close to the eye. so at my age it is not easy, to get focussed. I need some training ;-) or a big beer.
ref. the 8 mm rifle: I shot only plastic-BBs.
ref. the .177 /4,5 mm rifle: Today I fixed the spring but I have only 4,65 mm ( 0,183 inches) lead-pellets.
I can perforate with these a tin can (both walls) easily, but they might not fit exactly. So I am trying to search for a dealer which sells/offers bigger ones. Perhaps anyone here knows one????? 4,8 mm ??? 4,9 mm????
With the smaller gun (.177) I will go next week to the rifle range and shoot at 10 m /10 yards....will show results.
@fletcher:
yes, the giffard was very expensive at its time.
No, I is not a parlor-gun. "Not" referring the power. Take a look at the hole in the board (see pictures above) with 8 mm! Shes not harmless and should be handled with great caution (similar as the Windbüchse / Girardoni..)
Last edited by aimless; 05-01-2015 at 04:11 PM.
Registered User
If you want some lead balls for the 8mm Giffard Hornady make .315 lead round balls their ref number 6003 that are perfect.
They can be supplied by Hannan reloading.
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Very interesting ,i had the pleasure of firing one of these today in the larger cal.It is nice to hold & well built with firm predictable trigger let off,lovely!it held the charge no problem & kept that way for a number of years.
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