Cat among the pigeons?

[ccdjg]

At the risk of putting the cat among the pigeons, does anyone agree with me that the Walther LP53 is somewhat overrated when compared with the contemporary Webley Senior in terms of build quality and materials? I stress build quality, rather than performance or appearance, as I think that when it comes to looks the LP53 is unarguably a clear winner, and is probably also a better performer. What prompted me to raise this was the current thread about renovating an old LP53 asking what sort of paint to use to refinish the barrel. This gave me to think that an equivalent question directed at an old Webley Senior would have received some harsh comments, if not ridicule.

Back in 1954 I can clearly remember as a youngster my favourite gunshop, which exhibited an LP53 alongside a Webley Senior, Mark 1 and Junior in its window, and I also remember marvelling that the price of the Walther was almost twice that of the Senior. I now wonder why this was, considering that the Webley was manufactured from forged steel involving more than 50 machining operations, and even the barrel was deep-hole bored from solid steel, whereas the LP53 relied largely on zinc alloy castings, and the barrel was a steel tube sleeved with alloy. Perhaps the price difference was the result of heavy import duties at the time, or was Walther adding a nice premium confident in the saleability of its attractive design?

[tinbum]

I totally agree! I love the Senior and its probably the most tactile air pistol ever made. The build quality and materials are better by far and the shooting experience is every bit as good.

In my case, the desire for an LP53 is driven by my childlike need to buy things associated with James Bond. I'm a fan and have the watch, the LP53 and the rugged good looks, but I'm still working on the DB5!

[Garvin]

I completely agree too. From a collecting point of view, a pistol's performance has to be pretty special to make it compare favourably with the beautifully-made Webley Senior - a jewel in the history of British airguns. I don't think the LP53 reaches that mark, despite its qualities.

[tinbum]

Having now built the Walther and put quite a few pellets through it, i know that its gonna be for looking at rather than shooting. It's accurate enough, easy to use and has plenty of poke, but I had more fun with my Tempest.

Curse you! I need to find a Senior now!

[ccdjg]

Having now built the Walther and put quite a few pellets through it, i know that its gonna be for looking at rather than shooting. It's accurate enough, easy to use and has plenty of poke, but I had more fun with my Tempest.

Curse you! I need to find a Senior now!

I have to admit that the LP53 is well ahead when it comes to looks. After all, would James Bond have looked quite right with this http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...psd9a7204d.jpg rather than this http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps0f0795f8.jpg ?

Still, it would be a bit better than this http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps32dd9813.jpg.

[Garvin]

I have to admit that the LP53 is well ahead when it comes to looks. After all, would James Bond have looked quite right with this http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...psd9a7204d.jpg rather than this http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps0f0795f8.jpg ?

Still, it would be a bit better than this http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps32dd9813.jpg.

Ha ha.

[mrto]

I have to admit that the LP53 is well ahead when it comes to looks. After all, would James Bond have looked quite right with this http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...psd9a7204d.jpg rather than this http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps0f0795f8.jpg ?

Still, it would be a bit better than this http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps32dd9813.jpg.

Very good!

[clarky]

At the risk of putting the cat among the pigeons, does anyone agree with me that the Walther LP53 is somewhat overrated when compared with the contemporary Webley Senior in terms of build quality and materials? I stress build quality, rather than performance or appearance, as I think that when it comes to looks the LP53 is unarguably a clear winner, and is probably also a better performer. What prompted me to raise this was the current thread about renovating an old LP53 asking what sort of paint to use to refinish the barrel. This gave me to think that an equivalent question directed at an old Webley Senior would have received some harsh comments, if not ridicule.

Back in 1954 I can clearly remember as a youngster my favourite gunshop, which exhibited an LP53 alongside a Webley Senior, Mark 1 and Junior in its window, and I also remember marvelling that the price of the Walther was almost twice that of the Senior. I now wonder why this was, considering that the Webley was manufactured from forged steel involving more than 50 machining operations, and even the barrel was deep-hole bored from solid steel, whereas the LP53 relied largely on zinc alloy castings, and the barrel was a steel tube sleeved with alloy. Perhaps the price difference was the result of heavy import duties at the time, or was Walther adding a nice premium confident in the saleability of its attractive design?

I think i would be inclined to disagree with the comments regarding the Walther.
For one, the cocking lever/trigger guard is superbly crafted from solid steel which has been profiled in just the same way as the Webleys, while the Walthers design is brilliant based on putting all the internal in the grip. This is an amazing feat of engineering to place everything here and affording a very streamlined, firearm style. Meanwhile the trigger mechanism is in a far and away better class, both in design and operation and the primary reason why the gun is potentially more accurate.
I have also noted that rifling is superior and the sights much better.
The alloy housing and barrel casing are not Zinc but real alloy which can be anodized or parkerized. Both superbly executed and of the highest quality. Just in a different material.
The styling and quality of the plastic grips arguably even better than the Webleys.
Horses for course i guess but no way can one say the Webley is better....just different.

[gingernut]

I agree Clarky.

In addition can you like a pistol just because it is well built?
Webleys are ,but the many I have had were poor performers and had to go.
I think I had one early Senior that was ok.

The 53 wins for me on build and performance.

[pennineway.fswo]

I think that both pistols are superbly made but the Walther just edges it and is also the more attractive pistol IMO

Two big differences between the 2 pistols are the trigger pull/shootability and sights.

The LP53 has a nice crisp predictable 2nd stage let off that on mine is around 600grms. This is fine for target shooting.

However all Seniors that I have owned have had stiff dragging/creepy trigger pulls that really let them down and you have to work very hard to get decent groups even at short range. It also spoils the enjoyment in using the pistol.

The Premier addressed this issue with adjustment on sear overlap (like Mk1) but the Seniors (non adjustable) sliding sear trigger design was quite crude.

John

[Unframed Dave]

Tinners, couldn't really see Bond asking for a pasty at the table in Monte Carlo. The crumbs in the bed would have been a real turn off for the ladies as well. Bang on with the rugged good looks though.

Dave

[tinbum]

...... The crumbs in the bed would have been a real turn off for the ladies as well........

Lure them in with chips, keep them there with pasties!

[johnbaz]

I have both and of the two I much prefer the feel/quality of the Webley, No aluminium or Monkey metal is used but I reckon the Walther is more accurate...

As already said, The Walther design had been done before, I'm pretty sure the Webley was an original design, Improved from the the Mk1 pistol (May be wrong though but I can't recall another overlever pistol made before the Webleys!)



My fave pistol!!


Closer

It's in my favourite Girly cal too!!

I have another Senior coming on wednesday too



John

[gingernut]

I don't get a favourite pistol which is not as accurate as another?
Do you have a guitar that you prefer but keeps going out of tune?

I say this in a caring way seeking to understand the Webley Bug.

I may be a Philistine but my favourite pistols are the most accurate ones.

[Rob M]

The LP53 should be the better pistol (on paper at least) if they cost twice as much as Webleys at the time of original retail sale.

Some of my favourite pistols are less accurate than some other pistols I own. I own an HW45 but find it very ugly to look at and out of proportion. I also find it soulless and boring to shoot, though it is well made and accurate. I've somehow never taken to it like I've taken to the other pistols that I own. I'd much rather shoot one of my Webleys, BSAs or Hy-Scores, or a Record or Baikal than the HW45, they're just more fun, and more satisfying to shoot than the 45. I own a Webley Mk1, Senior and Premier, a couple of Nemesis pistols and a couple of Tempests, my favourite pistol and the one I shoot most often is a Tempest.