Cast Hornet bullets.

[Eligus]

Liam - I don't know how much they cost yet, still waiting for an invoice !

I've located some Red Dot reasonably close so will pick it up tomorrow and see how it goes. Just hoping for some decent weather.

[223AI]

Eligus what is your plan for switching between cast and jacketed bullets? I'm guessing just switching is going to cause accuracy issues due to the lead fouling.

[Eligus]

I've read quite a bit about it. Apparently there is little fouling if gas checks are fitted at higher speeds and even without them at lower velocities ( re. how hard the lead is). I'll see how it goes. I'm planning on using mine as slow as feasible, though I will pop some full loads through to see how they perform.

I'll just give the barrel a good clean before using jacketed bullets - apart from an experiment swapping between types to see what is affected without cleaning, to see if is feasible to carry both types when out in the field.

[223AI]

I've read quite a bit about it. Apparently there is little fouling if gas checks are fitted at higher speeds and even without them at lower velocities ( re. how hard the lead is). I'll see how it goes. I'm planning on using mine as slow as feasible, though I will pop some full loads through to see how they perform.

I'll just give the barrel a good clean before using jacketed bullets - apart from an experiment swapping between types to see what is affected without cleaning, to see if is feasible to carry both types when out in the field.

I'll watch with interest

[Eligus]

I just need a couple of sandbags and a length of string to try the first ones !!!

[Eligus]

I fired a few today, loaded with only 2 gr. Red Dot and 2.4 and 2.6. just to see how loud they were. They gave a light crack, not quite subsonic - a heavier bullet might help. I didn't have the chance to test velocity or accuracy because of the weather.

These were for light performance, I have some loaded with 7.5gr Lilgun which should give near normal Hornet performance.

The low loads of Red Dot only filled about 1/3rd. of the case so I was a bit concerned about the amount of empty space, having read horror stories of 'detonation'. I mounted the rifle on sandbags and used a string to pull the trigger - everything went fine! Thinking about it, a tiny load (2gr) of powder is not going to have the power to destroy a bolt action rifle.

Given the weather I'll get them over a chrongraph and on paper tomorrow.

[sackot]

I fired a few today, loaded with only 2 gr. Red Dot and 2.4 and 2.6. just to see how loud they were. They gave a light crack, not quite subsonic - a heavier bullet might help. I didn't have the chance to test velocity or accuracy because of the weather.

These were for light performance, I have some loaded with 7.5gr Lilgun which should give near normal Hornet performance.

The low loads of Red Dot only filled about 1/3rd. of the case so I was a bit concerned about the amount of empty space, having read horror stories of 'detonation'. I mounted the rifle on sandbags and used a string to pull the trigger - everything went fine! Thinking about it, a tiny load (2gr) of powder is not going to have the power to destroy a bolt action rifle.

Given the weather I'll get them over a chrongraph and on paper tomorrow.

I've tried both those loads, and personally I'm more nervous about SEE with the 7.5 Lil'gun than the Red Dot. The biggest risk with tiny loads of shotgun/pistol powder is the double load, I always throw, seat bullet, throw, seat bullet, rather than process in batches.

[bear]

if it aint gas checked I think that will run to hot and just coat the barrel groves in lead

[Eligus]

saklot - I'm real careful about double loads, the Hornet cases hold 5.5gr. Red Dot, filled up, so it is possible to double load the lighter loads. With the 7.5gr. Lilgun I thought there might have been just the slightest flattening of the primer so I'll try a couple more and maybe reduce that a little.

With V-Max bullets the Hornet handles 13gr. Lilgun (and they are pretty full) without any signs of over pressure.

bear - the bullets come with gas checks fitted.

[sackot]

saklot - I'm real careful about double loads, the Hornet cases hold 5.5gr. Red Dot, filled up, so it is possible to double load the lighter loads. With the 7.5gr. Lilgun I thought there might have been just the slightest flattening of the primer so I'll try a couple more and maybe reduce that a little.

With V-Max bullets the Hornet handles 13gr. Lilgun (and they are pretty full) without any signs of over pressure.

bear - the bullets come with gas checks fitted.

If you've not already done so, I'd recommend reading all you can on the web about SEE/kabooms. The gotcha is that it could be more dangerous to back off from 7.5gr than to increase it. No one can give firm guidelines because there is no agreement on the causes, and the explanations I've seen have been hand-waving rather than testable models.

Most would agree that it's unlikely to happen with downloading fast pistol powders, but might with the slower powders. It's all kind of backwards compared with normal load development, you reduce the load then step back any time you see any indication of inconsistent burn. Look for increase in extreme spread, vertical stringing, and definitely any perceptible degree of delayed ignition. (And in the unlikely event that any US readers with lawyers are reading this, never ever do it anyway under any circumstances because you will probably die).

My comment about Lilgun is because it seems to behave strangely regarding pressure/velocity vs charge, and I note that Quickload predictions for Lilgun are way off. Rightly or wrongly, I prefer Vhit N110 for downloading, because it seems very predictable and consistent with Quickload predictions. It starts to burn badly exactly where you would expect, as the predicted pressures dip under 10k. Despite its similar designation, H110 is said to be bad for downloading.

Regarding Red Dot and subs, I find that subsonic arrives around 1.8gr. I've not had amazingly good results, you will run into the symptoms mentioned above, plus sooty case necks, but I believe there is no peril involved. Switching between jacketed and cast should not hurt you, but be aware of the slight risk that if you lead the barrel then put a full power jacketed round through it, you could potentially bulge it slightly which won't do much for future accuracy. Oddly, I've seen doing exactly that proposed as a method for removing leading, but rather them than me. Unsurprisingly I find that low power, lubed, cast behaves just like rimfire in that it takes a while to settle down after you clean the barrel, so switching between the two may not be helpful, but YMMV. Also, I'm told that shooting cast through a barrel with copper fouling increases the leading potential, not seen it myself but it sounds plausible.

[sackot]

Deleted double post, don't know why.

[223AI]

Looks like I'm going to stick with using the .22 where noise is an issue and the hornet everywhere else, I unfortunately don't have the time or money to be experimenting with various bullets, powders and loads. I need to be out shooting 2 nights a week to keep on top of my perm's another 2 spent in the shed loading and I may not get fed by my good lady!

Good luck on your quiet load quest though Eligus

[Eligus]

sakdot - thanks for all that ! Firing a jacketed bullet down your barrel to clean the lead out seems a good redneck idea !

Boydy - I think you are right, my mate was with me today and he said "Why don't you just use the 22 ?"

Well, I got out with the loads today - with varying results !

My lightest load of 2.0gr. Red Dot was still sonic but not as noisy as an unsupressed lr. Velocity was around 1,500 fps and accuracy quite good.

At 2.6 gr. (velocity - 1,700 fps) grouping was stating to deteriorate at 50 yards and got worse up to 3.4 gr. Velocity with 3.4 gr was 1,900 fps with the cast and 2,100 fps with V-Max ( which went through the same hole!).

Observations - it was a limited test - the cast bullets were quite accurate at loads that suited them, however a couple of cast with 7.5 gr. Lilgun were spot on.
For target practice / rabbits 2.0 gr. Red Dot is fine, I have yet to determine the drop at 100 yards.
With the 40gr. cast bullets I doubt if subsonic can be achieved, perhaps with heavier bullets!

The cast bullets popped out at over 2,000 fps with no problems, definitely feasible to use instead of V-Max.

[Eligus]

Forgot the pics !
https://www.dropbox.com/s/34mg1gp05d...20001.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wl2yz5foud...20002.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zrq85vtstk...20003.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/htihgquxww..._0297.JPG?dl=0

[sackot]

Nice results.

The lack of gross flyers says that the bullets you sourced are OK and that you are loading them without damaging them (for cast that's good, it's more than the faint praise it sounds like), so from this point there only remains years of playing with loads, lube, buying a pot, moulds, lubesizers, etc