Another Webley pistol thread---Tuning

[ggggr]

As we all know, there are a few Webley pistol fans out there. We also know that they are a pretty good design, having the rotating piston that our BBS home tuners play with. We also know that the transfer port is a bit of a crap design.
Without going over the top, what do you think could be done to tune up a Webley pistol, to give a little more power, smoothness etc without turning it into an over stressed pile of junk?

What about a different weight of piston or sleeving the transfer port?
I think I've read on here about a top hat/piston weight and taking something off the guide?
I know that some people cram big springs and top hats in and get X ft lbs, but what I am thinking about here is just a little bit of thought, tinkering by the BBS home tuners. Big toe, Wonky Donkey, Jon Budd etc. Maybe we can get Ged away from his precharged things?
We know most modern rifles can be tuned to near the legal limit and still shoot sweetly, but how about a 90 year old design of classic pistol?
I quite like the slightly shortened mainspring and worked on trigger for plinking but was hoping the tuners might get interested in this?

[gedfinn 2]

As we all know, there are a few Webley pistol fans out there. We also know that they are a pretty good design, having the rotating piston that our BBS home tuners play with. We also know that the transfer port is a bit of a crap design.
Without going over the top, what do you think could be done to tune up a Webley pistol, to give a little more power, smoothness etc without turning it into an over stressed pile of junk?
Would it benefit from a slightly longer stroke? Can it be done? (I've not got one apart at the moment)
What about a different weight of piston or sleeving the transfer port?
I think I've read on here about a top hat/piston weight and taking something off the guide?
I know that some people cram big springs and top hats in and get X ft lbs, but what I am thinking about here is just a little bit of thought, tinkering by the BBS home tuners. Big toe, Wonky Donkey, Jon Budd etc. Maybe we can get Ged away from his precharged things?
We know most modern rifles can be tuned to near the legal limit and still shoot sweetly, but how about a 90 year old design of classic pistol?
I quite like the slightly shortened mainspring and worked on trigger for plinking but was hoping the tuners might get interested in this?

Ha ha, Hiya mate
,
Pcp/Co2 conversion Etc in my opinion is the only way to go ! Just TOO LITTLE ,
Your afforded low stress & You even have to turn it down to remain legal ? They knew what they were doing when Bsa made the Spifire,
It works with all the older Bsa,s & Now even with the Mercury, ( I only just started a thread before this on Inline valves ) You must have read my mind.

Ged.

[Edtwozeronine]

Most other threads I've seen about tuning Tempests and their ilk seem to suggest you're better off with a modern pistol like the Alecto if you're desperate for something both accurate and close to the limit. People have put double springs in the Webley Tempest and all sorts only to end up in the ball-park of 2.5-3ft/lbs which isn't far off what they do out of the box.

[Shed tuner]

Take a piccy of yours in bits and we'll have a think..
Basic stuff: a decent piston seal - what bore are they ? What does the seal look like ? Is there much meat on the piston head for a stroke increase ?
When testing with lighter / medium/heavier pellets, what range of powers do you see with each i.e. is it slamming (sleave down the trans port / lighten the piston) or bouncing (add weight / open port) ?
What is the SCR ?
Any potential for leaks around trans port and breach seal areas ?
Are the cylinders true ?
Are the piston skirts a snug fit in the bore ? If not bearings/buttons may help.

Increasing the spring is about the last thing I consider on tuning any gun

I'm guessing these are all just the same basic design as the HW45 and moderish tempest right ?

[ggggr]

Take a piccy of yours in bits and we'll have a think..
Basic stuff: a decent piston seal - what bore are they ? What does the seal look like ? Is there much meat on the piston head for a stroke increase ?
When testing with lighter / medium/heavier pellets, what range of powers do you see with each i.e. is it slamming (sleave down the trans port / lighten the piston) or bouncing (add weight / open port) ?
What is the SCR ?
Any potential for leaks around trans port and breach seal areas ?
Are the cylinders true ?
Are the piston skirts a snug fit in the bore ? If not bearings/buttons may help.

Increasing the spring is about the last thing I consider on tuning any gun

I'm guessing these are all just the same basic design as the HW45 and moderish tempest right ?

Hi Jon. Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I cannot answer many of the questions and dont have a camera or camera phone. Maybe someone else has one in bits?
It is a bit tricky as the Mk1's had a leather piston seal, some Seniors a phosphor bronze ring, Premiers, leather and then Ptfe and the Hurricane and Tempest has a split ptfe washer on a boss. I think all piston weights vary with models, but all seem to turn out about the same power,although I have never chronoed one and dont own own a chronograph.
I think all have a diameter of .796, which I think is 51/64ths!
I tend to just use Caledonian pellets which always seem a good fit in the barrels, going in without dropping in or being too tight.
Transfer ports are long and at an angle.
I have short stroked one by getting a longer,solid Ptfe head made up and used a shorter spring (I detailed this in the"Webley v Steyr " thread) and that all but got rid of recoil although power was down, as expected.

Tempest diagram https://www.gunspares.co.uk/products...est-1979-2005/

[mrto]

Ha ha, Hiya mate
,
Pcp/Co2 conversion Etc in my opinion is the only way to go ! Just TOO LITTLE ,
Your afforded low stress & You even have to turn it down to remain legal ? They knew what they were doing when Bsa made the Spifire,
It works with all the older Bsa,s & Now even with the Mercury, ( I only just started a thread before this on Inline valves ) You must have read my mind.

Ged.

Hi Ged,
Am I right in thinking it was you who came up with a design for a drop in Co2 conversion for the Webley over lever pistols?

Regards,
Mark.

[gedfinn 2]

Hi Ged,
Am I right in thinking it was you who came up with a design for a drop in Co2 conversion for the Webley over lever pistols?

Regards,
Mark.

Yes mate, & Webley service, Meteor, Lightning & Others !
Its all to do with an inline valve & An active ( Precharged or Co2 filled piston )
There was little to no intrest in the above, That's OK of course each to there own ,

I do not make much in the winter , Its too cold ? But I think the Item I thought would attract most attention never did , I am talking about is the mechanized Stirrup pump ,
I know a number are on U Tube & some are very good,
I read about members saying I top it off easy !, They may but try filling a 280 cc bottle from empty & Then another,
It needs a minimum of 2/3 of a horse power to work,

Run it slowish & it never overheats, Just a thought,

Ged.

[mrto]

Personally, I am very interested in the drop in Co2 conversion for Webley pistols.I'd love to try one out are there any pics of one anywhere on the net.

I'll have to google mechanised stirrup pumps and take a look,by the way.

Cheers,
Mark.

[T 20]

Personally, I am very interested in the drop in Co2 conversion for Webley pistols.I'd love to try one out are there any pics of one anywhere on the net.

Cheers,
Mark.

Here you go Mark, I doubt you'll ever find any pictures of a drop in kit, but this is a nice bit of machining :-

http://www.network54.com/Forum/57576...ley+CO2+Pistol.



All the best Mick

[mrto]

Thanks,Mick,
I hadn't seen that one before,Grant Stace is a very ingenious fellow!It's very much a permanent job that one,though as are other Webley Co2 conversions I have seen I really like the idea of a drop in conversion that allows the gun to be reverted back to original,but whether a practical design is possible or not without taking a closer look at one of mine I won't know.

Cheers,
Mark.

[gedfinn 2]

Thanks,Mick,
I hadn't seen that one before,Grant Stace is a very ingenious fellow!It's very much a permanent job that one,though as are other Webley Co2 conversions I have seen I really like the idea of a drop in conversion that allows the gun to be reverted back to original,but whether a practical design is possible or not without taking a closer look at one of mine I won't know.

Cheers,
Mark.

Mks 1 & The final Mk 2, They fit in the end of the precharged piston. I posted them a couple of months ago & Removed them ?

[mrto]

Mks 1 & The final Mk 2, They fit in the end of the precharged piston. I posted them a couple of months ago & Removed them ?

Thanks for the Pic,ged,but from the pic alone it is not very clear how they function.Would you mind explaining further?

Regards,
Mark.

[peddy]

Interesting post guy, my d series premier was fitted with a tr robb beast spring and piston head 30years ago and it still produces around 3fpe, for the cylinder size I wouldn't expect much more?

[Rob M]

I think that the cylinder size and the transfer port are the sticking points on these. The transfer port has a severe bend in it, but the bend is not a plain ninety degree turn, there's a short bit past the lead-in to the breach (blocked off by the screw ahead of the rear sight on the Tempest) which is lost volume and must also cause additional turbulence to the air flow. It might be possible to fill up the breech by building it up with aluminium weld, drill a new transfer port nearer to the barrel and fit a thinner breech seal. This would result in less lost volume and possibly smoother airflow. It would be a lot of work though for probably minimal gain.

[felix gunner]

Regarding the can you use a Combro? Yes, I tested all my Webleys with one, takes a little time and ingenuity with cable ties but not too tricky, results in the spring thread.