Supported Air Pistol Shooting

[zooma]

People are doing something about it and you can download a copy of the DSB Rules from their website. They are in PDF form. But there is one little problem, the file is in protected format so you cannot even cut and paste it into Google Translate or the like. Even if you do use an online translator you will find that it does't handle the technical language that the document uses. So there is just the small matter of finding a technical linguist to translate and transcribe them. Then you have to redraft the information into a format that is compatible with the NSRA Rules. Following that they will have to be approved by the PAC Committee before going to the Shooting Council.

This "push" you refer to is largely irrelevant, the information has been out there for months, all you had to do was read The Rifleman to find it. If you feel that it should be progressed in a different manner, then why not contact your county NSRA representative?

Finally, it is worth remembering that a great deal of the work associated with supported air pistol has been
carried out by volunteers. There is very little spare resource available at the NSRA so if you feel that you might be able to help you can contact the chairman of the PAC Committee who I am sure will be pleased to hear from you.
Rutty

Thanks for your valuable and helpful contribution to this thread although it does come across as being a bit negative and almost resentful of people trying to make an effort to get something going rather then waiting for a governing body to do it for them.

I am sorry that you feel this "push" is largely irrelevant and you will have to excuse me for not agreeing with you at all.

Hopefully we can download the DSB rules for Senior Supported Air Pistol Shooting and find a way to understand what it says although it is regretful that the NRSRA have not already done this as it has been an active discipline in Germany since at least 2010 and is reported to be the fastest growing branch of the sport - and yet in 2015 we still have no "official" reference to Senior Supported Air Pistol Shooting or indeed any translation of the existing rules.

You refer to the great deal of work that has been done in regard to supported pistol shooting and yet the basic requirement of knowing what the rules say for Senior Supported Air Pistol Shooting has NOT been done.

If you have no idea what the actual rules are - just how much effective work has been done?

[Rutty]

Thanks for your valuable and helpful contribution to this thread although it does come across as being a bit negative and almost resentful of people trying to make an effort to get something going rather then waiting for a governing body to do it for them.

People can do whatever they like but they should be aware that the NSRA are already working on the project and it would be wise to ensure that that what they decide to do will comply with the published rules and conditions.

I am sorry that you feel this "push" is largely irrelevant and you will have to excuse me for not agreeing with you at all.

Does anyone on the Shooting Council read this? If they did would they pay any attention to it? If you want results then:

If you feel that it should be progressed in a different manner, then why not contact your county NSRA representative?

That's what they are appointed to do.

Hopefully we can download the DSB rules for Senior Supported Air Pistol Shooting and find a way to understand what it says although it is regretful that the NRSRA have not already done this

Refer to The Rifleman, Autumn 2014, Page 46, Column 3. The contact for your questions is to be found there, ask him directly.

If you have no idea what the actual rules are - just how much effective work has been done?

I have "read" the DSB Rules, in so far as my limited German will allow. What needs to happen now is that they are re-drafted to allow their insertion into the NSRA Rules. When that is done, and they are approved by our representatives (that is the county reps that we appoint) an amendment can be published and everyone will be able to sing from the same hymn sheet. It all takes time and resource. Once again, talk to your count rep. or the Chairman of the PAC Committee.

it has been an active discipline in Germany since at least 2010

As soon as it was brought to the attention of the NSRA work was started on introducing it in this country. I only became aware of it on 2014, if you knew about it earlier; as you seem to imply; then why did you not raise it then?

Rutty

[zooma]

As soon as it was brought to the attention of the NSRA work was started on introducing it in this country. I only became aware of it on 2014, if you knew about it earlier; as you seem to imply; then why did you not raise it then?

Rutty

I am not critical of the NSRA as a body that I have supported since 1970 - but they are a full time national governing body that should be very much aware of what is going on in the competition shooting world and as such do not need an ordinary retired target enthusiast to point out how helpful this Senior Supported Air Pistol Shooting discipline could be for those of us that are older and unable to support the weight of a pistol with as much control as were were able to do when we were younger ( and probably a lot fitter).

This discipline should have been promoted and available to us years ago (about the same time as it became popular in Germany) - but since our own governing body does NOT currently offer this option I fail to see why it should be seen as so dissagreeable when we try to get something moving by ourselves - until they do.

Some encouragement would be better than any sort of dismissive or derisory response and I hope we can get this thread back on track from now onwards and make some positive efforts to getting it started for those that would find it as a helpful way to continue enjoying target shooting with an air pistol as they get older and less able to shoot without a Senior Supported Air Pistol Shooting discipline to get involved with.

The German "over age 56" rule tells it's own story and when you also become aware that this is the fastest expanding branch of the target shooting sport in Germany it is more than a little surprising that after all these years NOTHING has been done to openly promote this new discipline in the UK - .- .- until now!

The BBS forum is a very valuable open resource for "ordinary" target shooters so this is a good place to make everyone aware of the Senior Supported Air Pistol Shooting discipline and to help it get started and gather some momentum in the UK.

[AC99]

Senior Supported Air Pistol Shooting would certainly be of interested to the older air shooters in my local club many of whom now pursue other shooting disciplines less demanding of their physical abilities and some have given up completely. I think this would go some way to reviving their interest as seems to have happened to older shooters in European countries where it has been introduced over the last few years.

[zooma]

We are having a few problems actually finding the rules for Senior Supported Air Pistol Shooting on the German sites, but as soon as we can find a link to it we are able to translate it into English.

Once we have translated it we will offer it to anyone that is interested.

In particular I am aware that the tube (or roller) that the pistol grip sits on has a specific material (or finish) specified, once I can find out the specified diameter of the tube ( or roller) we can knock-up a couple of stands to the German specification and offer the plans or information to anyone that would like to make one for themselves.

If anyone does have more success that we have done so far in locating the German rules for SSAPS please let us have a working link so we can make some more progress.

Meanwhile we are making a stand based on the various pictures we have found of German shooters using a stand to shoot SSAPS from the 2011 German National Championships. The stands will be OK and workable but we will be very lucky if we happen to guess the exact dimension of the tube ( or roller) that they use or guess correctly what the specified surface finish should be - presumably a hard surface that cannot compress?

[zooma]

Information is beginning to trickle in to us via some good reliable contacts - so here is another little "snippet" to add to what we already know.

There are three classes of SSAPS :-

Class A for those aged 56 - 65.

Class B for those aged 66 - 71.

Class C for those aged 72 and over.

It looks like we need to get this moving quickly if I am to get a seasons shooting in Class A

I still hope we can offer a Senior Supported Air Pistol Class in the July- December MPL postal competition so it is clear that we will need to have all of the rules sorted out well before then.

The good news is that we are now beginning to make some positive progress and we have found a willing translator so we can convert the rules to spoken English within the next few days.

[zooma]

Another couple of snippets:_

The MAXIMUM diameter of the cylindrical rest is 50mm and it must be made from a HARD material such as steel, alloy, hardwood etc. We have no details on surface finish requirements.


The bottom of the pistol grip has to be FLAT - no indentations - absolutely FLAT.


This means that the bottom of the pistol grip can only ever form a tangent to the cylindrically shaped rest.


Now we are getting there

[zooma]

It turns out that the DSB rules for Senior Supported Air Pistol Shooting are pretty simple and uncomplicated and are easy to understand and only took a few minutes to get the hang of - but the translation is being "tidied-up" and we will get a good English copy of it on here soon.

The rules are so simple and obvious that I see no point in making any changes to them whatsoever as they are working just fine the way they are.

Most German shooters knock-up their own rests and find a way to fit a flat bottom onto their pistol grips ( usually just a wedge of hardwood) so it looks like a nice little project for the DIY shooter to get stuck into and a nice new challenge for those of us that can now continue to shoot air pistol for a few more years longer than we thought would be possible.

[leadhead]

This is very interesting. Thanks are due to you for pursuing it.
Is it open to all types of pistol? Or specific classes.
Look forward to further details. Watching with interest.

[zooma]

This is very interesting. Thanks are due to you for pursuing it.
Is it open to all types of pistol? Or specific classes.
Look forward to further details. Watching with interest.

This class is for .177 Air Pistol - any type - but CO2 or PCP probably suite this discipline best.

[I. J.]

As soon as you have a copy of the German rules let me see it and I will translate it for you. I speak German.

"Vot is your namen?"

SLAP!

"Vot is your ranken?"

SLAP!

"Vy are you hitting me?"



Can we have REALLY BIG targets at 10 m for those who are bad with the mince pies?

[mikec4]

The rules are so simple and obvious that I see no point in making any changes to them whatsoever as they are working just fine the way they are.

That's German efficiency for you...and they've been running it for only 4 years too!!

Most German shooters knock-up their own rests and find a way to fit a flat bottom onto their pistol grips ( usually just a wedge of hardwood) so it looks like a nice little project for the DIY shooter to get stuck into and a nice new challenge for those of us that can now continue to shoot air pistol for a few more years longer than we thought would be possible.

Thomas Rink supplies a "wedge" to convert pistols for this event.

​Here's the link;

http://www.formgriffe.de/en/shpPfCnt.php?sCI=123

Hope this helps a little,

ATB
Mike.

[/QUOTE]

[thirdwheel]

Here is a translation of the German supported rules, there were photos to help clarify points too, but here are the words it's very simple really.
The formatting has been lost somewhat in the paste.

Best cheers
George

Rules for shooting with air pistol which is rested

Pistol
The pistol is a normal air pistol, all sizes as well sights stay the same .

Grip
Its not allowed to shape the grip to fit the rest, the base of the grip rests on the rest.

Aiming
No body part may touch any of the stand for resting the pistol.
It’s not allowed to lean the side of the pistol on the rest. It’s not allowed to lean the body or any body parts on the stand to rest the pistol.
Between the hand and the stand for resting the pistol there must be a visible gap. Only the base of the grip may touch the rest and no other parts of the pistol i.e. you cannot rest the pistol on the rest using the area in front of the trigger.

Way of aiming
It is only allowed to hold the pistol with one hand the second hand is not allowed to hold the pistol or touch the pistol or the stand for resting the pistol.
Participant from seniors class C are allowed to shoot while using a stool without a back.
It is not allowed to lean on or to hitch in with one or two feet the shooting lane barrier / table or the chair. The feet must be flat on the floor and knees clear of any barrier.

Competition category’s
The seniors are divided into classes A,B,C.
Classes in the senior category
Age Group Help
56-65 Seniors A Resting
66-71 Seniors B Resting
72+ Seniors C Resting
and chair


Competition Class Classification
The classification of group comes from the age attained in the year before the actual sports year . A change of the group is not possible.

Male/Female participants
This is classed by the competition advertising

Numbers of shots
30 shots are counted
Sighting shots
In the shooting time it is possible to have unlimited training shots before the shots which are counted.

Shooting Times
10 Meter competition: 45 Minutes
Reloading
The reloading is only allowed if the muzzle is pointing down range.

Sorting out a draw
Single result for the places 1 to 6 ; If draw it depends on:
The highest result in the last 10 series and in the 10 series going back until there is a difference :
Through the highest number of 10,9,8,…
Through the highest number of the inner tenner

Shooting range
10 meter on 10-meter-air pistol targets.

Resting place for the pistol
The resting bar for the pistol has to be made out of round material with maximum 50 mm diameter and a length of minimum of 100 mm. Its surface has to have a have smooth finish where the pistol rests.

[Peter Pig]

That's great George, now, anyone got a picture of the rest.
Peter

[thirdwheel]

yup got pictures of the rest but have no way of putting them up here, Pm me with your email and I can send you them.

George