Ultimate "Ladies/Light Pattern" Collection

[Lakey]

Hi all,

Just been reading some of the comments on Peter Dunkleys for sale thread, (after I had picked myself off the floor at the mention of breaking it up and selling on a spares ) and it got me thinking about what the ultimate "Light Pattern" collection might consist of if funds and gun availability were not a problem.

So here is the ultimate collection

(1)1906 Lincoln Jeffries 'L The Lincoln' Air Rifle Patent' Ladies pattern gun, with a straight hand stock (standard breech)

(2)1906 Lincoln Jeffries 'L The Lincoln Air Rifle Patent' with an improved breech with the knurled nut

(3) 1906 BSA 'The BSA Air Rifle' in Light Pattern , with keyhole (improved breech with new retaining plate)

(4) 1907 BSA Improved Model B Air Rifle in light pattern

(5) 1908 BSA Improved Model D Air Rifle in light Pattern (bayonet cocking lever)

(6) 1912 BSA Improved Model D Air Rifle in light Pattern (side button cocking lever)

(7) 1913 BSA Improved Model D Air Rifle in light pattern with double safety sear

(8) 1914 BSA 'Standard' Air Rifle No 1 Bore - photo etched cylinder

(9) 1919 post war light pattern with Improved model D cylinder stampings, and other earlier components

(10) 1919 'BSA Standard No.1 Bore' with a two hole trigger block (photo-etched cylinder details)

(11) 1921 ' BSA Standard No.1 Bore' with a three hole trigger block

(12) 1929 'BSA Standard No.1Bore with the rare transistional shaped stock (rounded 1920's style with BSA letters in the chequering)

(13) 1933 'BSA Standard No. 1 Bore (L prefix) with the new more angular 1930's style stock

(14) 1936 BSA Standard No.1 Bore (A prefix)

And obviously I would want both straighthand and pistol hand stocked versions of all the pre WW1 guns...... and maybe even a few guns with peepsights etc

[martin bingham]

i have a light pattern serial l6273 [1919?]which is in reasonable original condition,the level of engineering and quality control is excellent and a real joy to shoot,i believe it cost more than 2 weeks wages for the average working man when new but would put food on the table,all the best

[Josie & John]

Excellent thread Lakey and one to exercise the brain. It must have taken you a while to compile.

There are quite a few variations of what I have termed the '1919 Model'. First came the 2 hole trigger block and Improved Model D cylinder, cocking lever and stock. Then slowly the cocking lever changed to the end button, stock was replaced with the hand chequered semi pistol grip and cylinder stamping was changed to etching. For this reason, the '1919 Model' is both fascinating and challenging to track down.

I'm sure you would also want a 2 hole trigger block model with hand chequered stock and another with pressed chequering in this quest! If you wanted to be even more discerning, there are variations in trigger weight on the 2 hole trigger block models, the weight being stamped into the stock as you undoubtedly know.

Martin,
On the assumption the first figure on your rifle is an L, I'd estimate it was made C.1920. I'm assuming a 2 hole trigger block?

Kind regards,

John

[martin bingham]

thats right, 2 hole trigger block and end button , i believe that mine was one of the last years to have been hand cut.also when you look there are little marks to show who did the work/inspection on a lot of the components which is nice to find

[Peter Dunkley]

We did try working out the total at the club one night. Gave it up!

[Lakey]

Excellent thread Lakey and one to exercise the brain. It must have taken you a while to compile.

There are quite a few variations of what I have termed the '1919 Model'. First came the 2 hole trigger block and Improved Model D cylinder, cocking lever and stock. Then slowly the cocking lever changed to the end button, stock was replaced with the hand chequered semi pistol grip and cylinder stamping was changed to etching. For this reason, the '1919 Model' is both fascinating and challenging to track down.

I'm sure you would also want a 2 hole trigger block model with hand chequered stock and another with pressed chequering in this quest! If you wanted to be even more discerning, there are variations in trigger weight on the 2 hole trigger block models, the weight being stamped into the stock as you undoubtedly know.

Martin,
On the assumption the first figure on your rifle is an L, I'd estimate it was made C.1920. I'm assuming a 2 hole trigger block?

Kind regards,

John

Hi John,

Thanks for the reply, I had forgotten about the hand chequering. To be honest, as I was writing the list out I was thinking of more, but I thought things like differences in bayonet ended cocking levers and sights etc was maybe taking things too far- Interesting to me and the more ardent of BSA collectors, but lost on the more general vintage collectors.

Just goes to show just how many variations there are. Most collectors might have one or two light patterns in their collection.......

Other things that might appeal would be

Improved model D with no metal butt plate

Hand chequered 1919 model

Light patterns with aperture sights and No.19 foresight etc etc etc


I wonder if any members here have amassed the full set. Would make a wonderful photograph.

ATB

Lakey

[Josie & John]

Hi John,

Thanks for the reply, I had forgotten about the hand chequering. To be honest, as I was writing the list out I was thinking of more, but I thought things like differences in bayonet ended cocking levers and sights etc was maybe taking things too far- Interesting to me and the more ardent of BSA collectors, but lost on the more general vintage collectors.

Just goes to show just how many variations there are. Most collectors might have one or two light patterns in their collection.......

Other things that might appeal would be

Improved model D with no metal butt plate

Hand chequered 1919 model

Light patterns with aperture sights and No.19 foresight etc etc etc


I wonder if any members here have amassed the full set. Would make a wonderful photograph.

ATB

Lakey

Hi Lakey,

I perhaps should have pointed out the variations I mentioned were extremely picky and as you say, probably taking things too far. Then there are Retailer marks...

I have 11 Lights and thought that was fairly representative until I saw your list! Just goes to show a true collection is never complete.

Kind regards,

John

[Garvin]

That's a fantastic list, Andy! I have some of them, but the earliest Light examples have eluded me so far. I think the earliest I've had was this one, which I think came from you originally! My favourites are this 1914 one and a beautifully etched 'A' series, which I acquired fairly recently and haven't got round to photographing. I had to move on my early 1919 Light which I was fond of, but I think it hasn't actually sold yet (Holts still has it), although the reserve is £180, which doesn't seem too greedy to me? Maybe it is! I might just ask for it back rather than reduce the reserve.

[Lakey]

That's a fantastic list, Andy! I have some of them, but the earliest Light examples have eluded me so far. I think the earliest I've had was this one, which I think came from you originally! My favourites are this 1914 one and a beautifully etched 'A' series, which I acquired fairly recently and haven't got round to photographing. I had to move on my early 1919 Light which I was fond of, but I think it hasn't actually sold yet (Holts still has it), although the reserve is £180, which doesn't seem too greedy to me? Maybe it is! I might just ask for it back rather than reduce the reserve.

Wow ....... That 1914 gun is just STUNNING !!

A beautiful early "Standard", at precisely the point where the Improved model D finished, and the "Standard" model took over. Most people think that was after the war in 1919, but it was actually a shade earlier. ( I wonder how many BSA staff members went to fight in France and Belgium and never came back - or was working in an arms factory a reserved occupation? I guess it was ?)
Anyway back to that wonderful gun. That No.10 rearsight looks like it was made YESTERDAY!!! and I don't think the loading tap assembly has EVER been removed judging from those screw heads. WHAT A FIND!!!

WHat a bobby dazzler !! as a certain Mr Dickinson might say.

[mrto]

Nice list,
I have a 1907 Improved Model D Light Pattern, bayonet lever with a peep sight machined into the top of the trigger block.It's in fairly nice condition,but has a replacement under lever catch dovetailed into the underside of the barrel.Unfortunately the tap leaks and power as a result suffers,but nevertheless it's a lovely little antique BSA to plink with.

ATB.

[BadPigeon]

Speaking of light pattern BSA LJ patent.

I have a lovely first series Nov/Dec 1905 BSA LJ patent .177 (longer one)
and Aug/Sep 1910 light pattern LJ patent .177 both straight stock.
As per pic below (pics don't do them justice) the bayonet underleaver
on light pattern looks bent.I can not see any signs of forceful misbehaviour
on the bayonet, do you think this is the way some of the underlevers were cast?
I have seen fair few bent bayonet underlevers but not sure if this is how they were originally made.

I was even contemplating selling the light pattern after I find another early one with the straight bayonet.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...ps22281967.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...pse687149c.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...ps70975dc7.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...ps2eb4ae63.jpg

[Lakey]

Speaking of light pattern BSA LJ patent.

I have a lovely first series Nov/Dec 1905 BSA LJ patent .177 (longer one)
and Aug/Sep 1910 light pattern LJ patent .177 both straight stock.
As per pic below (pics don't do them justice) the bayonet underleaver
on light pattern looks bent.I can not see any signs of forceful misbehaviour
on the bayonet, do you think this is the way some of the underlevers were cast?
I have seen fair few bent bayonet underlevers but not sure if this is how they were originally made.

I was even contemplating selling the light pattern after I find another early one with the straight bayonet.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...ps22281967.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...pse687149c.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...ps70975dc7.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...ps2eb4ae63.jpg

Hi Badpigeon,

The Bayonet underlever on the light pattern is a very early type, much earlier than 1910. By 1910, the bayonet lever would have had little side fences, to help locate the catch block under the barrel. It does look like the lever had suffered a knock or two,as the bayonet has definitely been bent at sometime - possibly from a fall. I believe the proper shape of the bayonet end is a very shallow curve outwards, although you do see a lot which have a straight bayonet. If you look at contemporary adverts of the time from BSA, they show the shallow downwards curve rather than straight bayonets, however it would only take one or two falls of the gun, to bend it back straight ? Does the smaller gun have the same long tang to the back of the triggerguard? I see one gun has, but the pictures are abit dark to see the necessary detail on both guns.

Lakey

[BadPigeon]

Sorry about the pics they are very dark even with the lights on. Light pattern has no long tang to the back like the other one. The serial number is No 29xxx (cant remember exact serial not home today) no prefix. John Knibbs book puts this in 1910 around August time probably if they made the same number of guns every month. I read someone saying best not to try to straighten the bayonet as it could break and i could not bear the thought of breaking the rifle as it shoots very well so will enjoy it as it is but it would be nice if the bayonet looked as it was meant to. Never mind sooner or later another one will come along 😳