reloading priorities

[Psychosomatic88]

Evening all,

Just something I was thinking about, what is the consensus for developing a load in regards to the order we adjust and how does the intent change what/if we do?

OK sounds strange I know so example provided:

1- You want to make some general range ammo for your Lbr/gallery rifle, your after 1-2inch ish at 25 metres. You have 158gn lead bullets and know they are OAL to the cannelure. So do you begin tweaking powder charge, powder type, crimp strength or other first then what next? Guess im asking what order you tweak the development load in.

2- hunting rifle, your after 1 moa or better for your quarry and range as appropriate . Whats first? coal, powder charge, bullet weight/type, powder type or other?

3 - a 1000m 0.25 moa target rifle. Whats first? coal, powder charge, bullet weight/type, powder type, neck tension, brass make or other?

Now I have been reloading for years, this is more of a curiosity on how/if priorities changes depending on the discipline /use.

When I develop loads for my rifles I tend to go, rough powder charge, 0.3grain increments with coal factory length, then play with coal,refine powder charge and repeat untill happy. Then try different bullet if not progressing well.

Although I get results I cant help feel that its a bit tedious especially as each refinement is a separate range trip.

[zanes]

I found for 25m stuff varying the charge between 4.2 and 6 grains of bullseye made minimal difference accuracy wise (my shooting and open sights being dominant) and surprisingly little POI change so stick at 4.2 and mass produce.

PS> Hope the AUG is going well!

[Psychosomatic88]

I use 5.0 grains of clays in my rossi and as you say I found a band that was suitable, and churn it out en masse as its for plinking.

Absolutely lovIng the AUG! Shoot 55gn fmjbt and 69 smk through it and added a Mark Bradley spangly doofer brake to annoy everyone around it

I meant to message you sometime soon as we were discussing Hps ammo and that barnaul stuff At £23/100 - I know you said it was junk, that was just accuracy if I remember rather than function/extraction? Despite hps being very close I never been there, but will be swinging by this week for some other stuff.

[zanes]

Good to hear!

The Barnual stuff seemed OK for extraction but accuracy was pretty poor as I remember, but I never really got round to doing any serious work with it (I probably put well under 200 rounds through it) so it could have been me to some (or all) extent!

Oddly enough I sold some Barnual 7.62x39 (because I never actually bought a rifle to use it in!) to a chap off here last week and he said it went really well through his AK! Go figure!

There again someone I know used to use it as plinking ammo and they had problems with it not going off surprisingly often and dire accuracy (3"+ at 100 yards scoped), but that was in .308. Who knows!

For £23/100 it's probably worth giving a couple of hundred a go. Maybe some rifles get on with it and others don't, or batch to batch is crap.

Hell, you could probably give it a go and if all else fails pull the bullets and reload under them. Cheaper than matchkings for primer case and bullet that way!

[Korium]

Absolutely lovIng the AUG! Shoot 55gn fmjbt and 69 smk through it and added a Mark Bradley spangly doofer brake to annoy everyone around it

I find the AUG to be a bit more accurate with Lapua Scenar 69gn bullets. Andy Allwood in Bracknell stocks them, as did Sportsman's Gun Centre, but I don't see them on their website at the moment.

[Psychosomatic88]

Well this was what I was thinking, for that money for even just trigger time its surely worth it. Or as you say make up some Mexican Match ammo

Korium, what is your accuracy like? With my Meopta scope and its nice fine duplex it was between 1.0 - 1.2MOA rested etc and trying hard. 25.0 grains of Re15 topped with 69 SMK. No Idea what the accuracy is now its wearing a Vortex Spitfire 3x with the 556 EBR ret. But I hopefully will shoot it soon weather permitting.

Ive also got some 55grain FMJBT sat over BLC2 to plink with.

[tacfoley]

Talking to a shooter in Belarus last year, and mentioning Barnaul ammuntion, he laffed and reminded me that it was made by the trillion in the same production facility as the slightly different Russian cartridge. The 'service' ammuntion was expected to 'group' ten shots in a fifteen centimetre zone at 100m. When I mentioned that people here in the West put it through their expensive rifles, he was amazed - 'How can you shoot that cr*p' through a decent gun?'

I have to agree with him.

Why spend a small fortune on the rifle of your dreams, and then be disappointed when it doesn't shoot one-hole ten shot groups with cr*ppy ammunition?

Anyone who reloads can duplicate Barnaul ammunition - just vary every charge slightly as you load it in the case, and use as wide a spread of bullet weights as you can find.

tac, mystified.

[Psychosomatic88]

Tac,

That was a great post.

I wasn't after great groups from the Barnaul, just trigger time - I usually get a load of people wanting to run a mag through it too and for me just general plinking. I knew Zanes didn't praise it but couldn't remember if it was accuracy or feeding.

6MOA for that purpose is fine for the purpose in that case.

[zanes]

The 'service' ammuntion was expected to 'group' ten shots in a fifteen centimetre zone at 100m.

Through which rifle?

When I mentioned that people here in the West put it through their expensive rifles, he was amazed - 'How can you shoot that cr*p' through a decent gun?'

I've yet to see a rifle knackered by using crap ammo. For a bit of the f-word with a rifle it's fine.

Bear in mind we're talking service rifles here, not multi thousand pound target rifle with all the go faster bits.

[severnsider]

Tac,

That was a great post.

I wasn't after great groups from the Barnaul, just trigger time - I usually get a load of people wanting to run a mag through it too and for me just general plinking. I knew Zanes didn't praise it but couldn't remember if it was accuracy or feeding.

6MOA for that purpose is fine for the purpose in that case.

I bought a couple of boxes of Barnaul 5.56 a few years ago but gave most of it away in the end. (a) the 'accuracy' was hopeless and (b) I had second thoughts about sending steel projectiles down my nice new Sako barrel. I suppose I thought that softer lead cores would be 'kinder' on the barrel? Maybe I'm wrong. Any thoughts on that?

[Psychosomatic88]

I bought a couple of boxes of Barnaul 5.56 a few years ago but gave most of it away in the end. (a) the 'accuracy' was hopeless and (b) I had second thoughts about sending steel projectiles down my nice new Sako barrel. I suppose I thought that softer lead cores would be 'kinder' on the barrel? Maybe I'm wrong. Any thoughts on that?

I see what your saying, but the AUG has I believe a chrome lined barrel, and is a firearm designed for semi auto/ full auto military ammo (I think the only difference between mine and service rifles is the trigger pack as thats the select fire and the gas port and piston).

Im sceptical about the whole steel v lead core argument. In my opinion both types have a copper jacket as a buffer but I completely understand the difference in what you could call a conventional barrel. Why risk any damage and also the accuracy sucks so I totally agree with your choice .

However, for me Barnaul would be used as trigger time, groups not mattering in the slightest. The AUG action as a straight pull is tiring when fired rapidly or for extended periods of time, its also is an unsual trigger and funny/unconventional shape/balance. Also quite a few ask for a go at the range and blast off a 30 round mag. Blitzing my decent Smk loads for that seems expensive when I never ask for ammo or money.

And I wasnt trying to replicate the barnaul loads, im happy with what I hav. The thread was supposed to be just a wandering thought on what order people develop loads and I appear to have side tracked it.

[Korium]

Well this was what I was thinking, for that money for even just trigger time its surely worth it. Or as you say make up some Mexican Match ammo

Korium, what is your accuracy like? With my Meopta scope and its nice fine duplex it was between 1.0 - 1.2MOA rested etc and trying hard. 25.0 grains of Re15 topped with 69 SMK. No Idea what the accuracy is now its wearing a Vortex Spitfire 3x with the 556 EBR ret. But I hopefully will shoot it soon weather permitting.

Ive also got some 55grain FMJBT sat over BLC2 to plink with.

Back when I fitted a 10x scope to the rifle, it was good for sub-MOA. That was from a rifle rest in ideal conditions. It's closer 1.0/1.5 MOA with the 4x sight. I think the trigger can be more of a limiting factor to accuracy than other elements of the design.

The load was:
Lapua Scenar 69gn FMJBT (loaded to magazine length)
Viht N140: 24.2gn
Remington BR Primers

I did not try much surplus through it. It did fairly well with the German DAG 5.56 ammo the NRA sold at Bisley, under 2.0 MOA. Radway Green was less accurate and didn't always extract easily.

[tacfoley]

I bought a couple of boxes of Barnaul 5.56 a few years ago but gave most of it away in the end. (a) the 'accuracy' was hopeless and (b) I had second thoughts about sending steel projectiles down my nice new Sako barrel. I suppose I thought that softer lead cores would be 'kinder' on the barrel? Maybe I'm wrong. Any thoughts on that?

It's the steel that makes contact with your barrel, not the cores.

Good decision.

The Russian military firearms have hard-chromed bores and generally shoot minute of Kremlin. Putting this sh*te down the barrel of a decent rifle is like running your Ferrari on creosote.

tac

[tacfoley]

Through which rifle?



I've yet to see a rifle knackered by using crap ammo. For a bit of the f-word with a rifle it's fine.

Bear in mind we're talking service rifles here, not multi thousand pound target rifle with all the go faster bits.

The Russian Federation service assault rifle, and their odd little cartridge with the paper-filled cavity at the front.

tac

[Treebone]

I have never been able to understand why people use inferior ammo for trigger time or practice or plinkingsaving their best ammo for "serious" shooting, why? you dont learn anything, the use of inferior ammo wont tell you how well your rifle is performing, it wont tell you how well you are preforming and it wont help in refining your technique.
Its a complete waste of time, money and effort.

TB.