Restore or Original?

[RobinC]

Here's a talking point for you collectors.

How do you guys feel about restoration against original?

You may know I'm searching for a particular Original 75, to an air rifle collector it may just be another 75 that's been cut about and covered in stickers, and they may have bought it (perhaps even for spares) and binned the stock? But they would be unaware that that rifle was one of if not the first one into the UK, it was the only one used by a GB team member in internationals and we believe by any one in internationals. Its non standard alterations were period and done within days of it coming out of its first box. If its been restored to new, is it now better, or a piece of history that has been destroyed?

Classic target air rifles are now collectable, but how many collectors research the guns history before they restore? Would you restore an original Geoff Duke factory Norton or a Stirling Moss car back to as new?

As an example my wife and I own a Malcolm Cooper GX1 Walther stock that he set world and British records (still held from 1986!) with, he used it for 300 mts and the action was moved to his next gun, we have rebuilt it and it is shot again with another 300 mt 7.62 action, but the stock is as he used it with EC stickers from Souel in 1978 and Oulu in 1981, it was saved because the late Bill Welch (good friend of Malcolms and ex AI sales manager) stored it, and passed it to us before his death. Walther do not have any ex Malcolm Cooper rifles in their Museum, and this is booked for them when we move on. We know of a couple of his rifles that his wife Sarah gave to a museum in NZ where she now lives.

But would any air gun collector know if they had restored to mint, as new, one of his LGR's, they look no different! It would take carefull detective work on EC stickers, etc, etc, to even suspect the guns history?

My view is that with the interest in collecting match air guns, in many cases by enthusiasts who have no knowledge of match shooting that the restorers should be very careful and consider competition history and be very selective with what they return to as new.

What do others think?

[lodmoor]

With vintage modifications to pistols, particularly Webleys, I never restore preferring to keep them as the original owner modified them.

A standard gun that needs a little TLC will get it, one that is hopelessly knackered but working I would probably customise, anything in between I would sell on.

Oh, and I hope you find the rifle you are looking for.

[I. J.]

Good question.
Ive restored rifles before now that were just fit for the bin (split stocks, bent barrels, rusty etc) and in a condition not safe (or accurate) to use. On the other hand Ive got an old 1914 BSA underlever where someone has scratched their initials in the stock . I could easily remove them and restore the stock but then I would be loosing a bit of the history of the rifle.

I also own a 1954 Moggy Thou, 'Gloria The Cabbage' http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...ml?sort=4&o=40 so called because it looks like someone has painted it with a cabbage. I wont restore it. Its 99% complete and gets used. The first thing I did was fit new tyres and brakes. O.K. its not the most reliable car in the world - I often come back from a run with dirty hands - but it always gets me back. Would I enjoy it more if it was immaculate? No! Id be to worried to get it scratched and dirty.

ATB
Ian

[lodmoor]

Good question.
Ive restored rifles before now that were just fit for the bin (split stocks, bent barrels, rusty etc) and in a condition not safe (or accurate) to use. On the other hand Ive got an old 1914 BSA underlever where someone has scratched their initials in the stock . I could easily remove them and restore the stock but then I would be loosing a bit of the history of the rifle.

I also own a 1954 Moggy Thou, 'Gloria The Cabbage' http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...ml?sort=4&o=40 so called because it looks like someone has painted it with a cabbage. I wont restore it. Its 99% complete and gets used. The first thing I did was fit new tyres and brakes. O.K. its not the most reliable car in the world - I often come back from a run with dirty hands - but it always gets me back. Would I enjoy it more if it was immaculate? No! Id be to worried to get it scratched and dirty.

ATB
Ian

I have a German Diana MK2 with a name scratched on it and '4.5', I think it is pre-war also, as I have said, a couple of modified Webleys but I did not think we were including cars.

In my case a 20+ year old Mazda MX5 that everyone tells me I should change - no chance!

[Abasmajor]

Iv'e never been averse to a little light and sensitive restoration such as tidying damaged screw heads or applying a little cold blue to the odd scratch etc, but certainly nothing which drastically alters the overall finish or appearance of the gun. I also don't have a problem with replacing broken parts inorder to return a gun to full working order, but am always careful to retain the original broken part with the gun to preserve some traceability of its history.

Regards

Brian

[Powderfinger]

I like to see the history of the gun preserved, whenever possible. That includes not taking off stickers, stamped numbers, gunshop stampings and initial plaques. So long as a gun is in safe working order, I like to see it left as it is and just maintained as a shooter. If a gun is very far gone, with all the finish and lost of the markings worn away then a restoration might be justified.

A pity that modern gunshops do not stamp their names on the butts anymore. That would make life interesting for future collectors.

And it's high time there was a blue plaque on the site of Lincoln Jeffries at 121 Steelhouse Lane!

[Lakey]

Good question.
Ive restored rifles before now that were just fit for the bin (split stocks, bent barrels, rusty etc) and in a condition not safe (or accurate) to use. On the other hand Ive got an old 1914 BSA underlever where someone has scratched their initials in the stock . I could easily remove them and restore the stock but then I would be loosing a bit of the history of the rifle.

I also own a 1954 Moggy Thou, 'Gloria The Cabbage' http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...ml?sort=4&o=40 so called because it looks like someone has painted it with a cabbage. I wont restore it. Its 99% complete and gets used. The first thing I did was fit new tyres and brakes. O.K. its not the most reliable car in the world - I often come back from a run with dirty hands - but it always gets me back. Would I enjoy it more if it was immaculate? No! Id be to worried to get it scratched and dirty.

ATB
Ian

Ian,

"Gloria the Cabbage " - love it !!! I wouldnt do anything to it either, except enjoy it. What a wonderful car.

Love it



Lakey

[Geezer]

I agree. Do just enough to get them working, safe and accurate. But no objection to full restoration of basket cases, or where major parts need replacing and don't match. Or where an owner wants "old faithful" put back how it was before decades of use.

I.J. - Lovely Morris Minor. My first car (in 1987) was a 1954 Minor. Don't want to be pedantic, but yours is not a '54 (that had the split front screen, small rear window and really gutless 803cc A-series engine). It's a 1000, which came out in 1956.

Mine also needed quite a bit of work to keep going. For a while the starter motor was broken, so I just used the handle instead, which often got funny looks (especially the time it stalled in traffic on the high street and I got out and wound it back up). The starting handle also got used once to despatch a rabbit that ran out in front of me and got badly injured. Sadly the young lady in the passenger seat was upset that I had "killed the little baby bunny" rather than take an animal with both hind legs broken to the vet. Don't think I saw much of her again.

[I. J.]

I.J. - Lovely Morris Minor. My first car (in 1987) was a 1954 Minor. Don't want to be pedantic, but yours is not a '54 (that had the split front screen, small rear window and really gutless 803cc A-series engine). It's a 1000, which came out in 1956.

Tis a '54 - its 61 next week (3rd March). Its like Triggers brush - its been re bodied and re engined (at least once ).
We had a 60th birthday party up at the indoor range last year. http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...tml?sort=4&o=0

I did run an (1990) MX5 Eunos for 14 years before giving it to my nephew. http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...ml?sort=4&o=39

ATB
Ian

[lodmoor]

Tis a '54 - its 61 next week (3rd March). Its like Triggers brush - its been re bodied and re engined (at least once ).
We had a 60th birthday party up at the indoor range last year. http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...tml?sort=4&o=0

I did run an (1990) MX5 Eunos for 14 years before giving it to my nephew. http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...ml?sort=4&o=39

ATB
Ian

Run mine now for 13 years - what made you go away from open top? Once there never go back!

(It's a Eunos.)

[I. J.]

Run mine now for 13 years - what made you go away from open top? Once there never go back!

(It's a Eunos.)

This: http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...ml?sort=4&o=41

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...ml?sort=4&o=43

Hard top - Targa top - open top.

[Airsporterman]

All of my rifles are pretty much as I got them, (all airsporters - one a genuine Centenary) a couple were new, one was restored, most are second hand and the way I got them. The only Airsporter I got with the intention of restoring myself, I got as an action only (Mk2)- it was missing it's stock and the rear sight and the alloy trigger block assembly was polished.
I fitted a mk1 stock and a secondhand rear sight, when It was all back together - I left it as it was as I believed it reflected the rifles 'history'.
I also have a MK1 wearing a Mk4 stock (bought off a member on here!) I have left it the way I got it (so far) however, it is my intention to make my own elongated stock (on the lines of a Centenary stock) when I can get a suitable piece of wood to do it.
Personally, I understand the argument both ways - I do not think either is right or wrong, it's largely up to the owner of said rifles at the time of ownership, there's arguments both ways. (ie - leaving original or restoring.) Sometimes a rifle has reached a point where some form of restoration is needed, otherwise, I say leave alone!

ASM

[lodmoor]

This: http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...ml?sort=4&o=41

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...ml?sort=4&o=43

Hard top - Targa top - open top.

Yea Yea Yea

What I didn't say is our other car is a MK3 MK5 satnav sport 2 litre.

Inconvenient for friends 'cos we can't collect etc but excellent fun as they all do the sports car bit too.