Good on the NSRA to go back and sort it out rather than stopping it because the insurers didn't understand it.
I'll say it again, as I don't say it that often, well done the NSRA.
Systems Administrator
Good on the NSRA to go back and sort it out rather than stopping it because the insurers didn't understand it.
I'll say it again, as I don't say it that often, well done the NSRA.
Registered User
The way I read this if something goes wrong they’ll be asking you for proof your load used exactly the same components as in a loading manual that you own (or have done a proof house batch test), that you retained the instructions for all the reloading equipment you used and have recorded all the stuff they wanted in section 16. Otherwise no insurance as insurance companies don't give money away unless necessary.
Following this guidance there would be no shooting of many historic calibres or use of non-US components without paying the proof house to test loads.
Fortunately, my local range uses NRA insurance.
BB
Registered User
We use NRA insurance as well; that said I read through the NSRA document - and then re-read it. Even though (as a 'for example') I don't intend to download cartridges as the ranges I use wouldn't require it but it never hurts to know more; it's why I don't underdstand the mentality of people who say "I have a load of experience but I'm going to play secret squirrel with it and not tell you why I do a certain thing a certain way". Such people are just bell ends of the first order.
Well done the NSRA for taking the trouble to do this. I will be making a copy available to the members of our club as a couple of them reload, and anything that helps people (and therrfore by proxy the people around them) to be safer on the range has to be a good thing.
We have insurance but the only time it becomes significantly relevant is when something goes wrong - and I don't want to ever get into that place!
Registered User
I do not understand why the NSRA(smallbore rifle association) has any involvement in the realm of centrefire ammunition.
amc577
Systems Administrator
Because they provide (via a broker) insurance for most smallbore clubs and some of these allow fullbore ammo to be used if it meets the range restrictions. Normally this is just pistol calibres such as .357/.45 but can also cover .303 with suitable (and safe) reloaded ammo, sometimes with cast bullets.Originally Posted by amc577
A range is only a range now if it has insurance (read your FAC if you have target conditions).
Registered User
[QUOTE=bullbarrel;6651934]Good on the NSRA to go back and sort it out rather than stopping it because the insurers didn't understand it.
QUOTE]
This is where the waters get a little muddy - when we received the paperwork from the nsra indicating the change in insurance cover, they claimed it was being driven by the underwriters. When we contacted the underwriters, they claimed they knew nothing about hand loading and downloading and that the issue was being driven by the NSRA. We then contacted the NSRA. Their reception directed the call to a member of staff who they said was dealing with the mater and he claimed that the change was nothing to do with the NSRA and it was being driven by the insurance under writers.
Systems Administrator
Oh dear, very muddy indeed.
Registered User
[QUOTE=Neil-Carter;6677772]This was all kicked off by Ali Aitken at the NSRA who knows little or nothing about the practice of reloading fired cartridges.
IMHO he needs putting out to grass as he does NOTHING to support the shooting fraternity who don't lie on the ground strapped to a .22 target rifle.
Registered User
Gentlemen,
It gets muddier still, because many indoor gallery rifle ranges are certificated for 'pistol calibre centre Fire'
This means, in effect, that whilst you may download you 303 or whatever--- it's STILL a centre fire full bore round. No ammount of lead bullets/pistol powder etc will ever make it anything but a full bore round.
Look at your club safety cert next time you're down there.
As to the NSRA making comment or codes of practice about centre-fire reloading--- if what previous poster said about their apparent lack of communication with the brokers, then it says it all really.
They really do need to get their story straight don't they?
David
Dialling code: 01344
I think that this might be an issue around what you originally asked for.
My range has a calibre limit, an energy limit, a velocity limit, and no other constraints.
True freedom includes the freedom to make mistakes or do foolish things and bear the consequences.
TANSTAAFL
Registered User
[QUOTE=Neil-Carter;6677772]
Why does this not surprise me?
One of our club members was reported to the staff at the Lord Roberts Centre basicly because he was shooting a Lee Enfield.
It was a no.7 (.22LR), and the member concerned was an NSRA Range Conducting Officer.
The only other people around were myself (having been invited along to see the rifle) and the British paralympic team. Their coach kept trying to see what Martin was shooting, so i guess it was him that reported Martin basicly because he wasn't shooting a target rifle or strapped into a shooting jacket and the prejudice oozing from him there was almost tangible; he seemed almost upset when after speaking with the staff at the centre we just carried on with what we were doing.
I sm so glad that most shooters are normal people though.
Registered User
Handloads versus factory loaded ammunition
Those of you who are NRA members, and have personal NRA insurance, will have seen the recent problems with the 308 factory ammunition provided at Bisley to competition shooters......seems that you cannot trust factory ammo, let alone handloads!
Education is the key to safety, with reloading courses offered by clubs. Even experienced reloaders can have problems with faulty cases or primers. Crossing the road is dangerous....probably a lot more dangerous than reloading.
amc577
Registered User
That was one batch number of RWS .308 ammunition (for those with a supply of this the batch number is 261919) and the failure was blown and leaking primers. The ammunition was provided to the NRA by RUAG for the 2013 Imperial Meeting, and if you have ammunition of theis batch number you need to check your chamber dimensions are CIP compliant before using it. (To be honest though if I had any i would be tempted to dispose of the ammunition or get it to the range office so it can be sampled as part of the ongoing QA investigation).
Registered User
Personally, I have always found the NSRA staff helpful.
Ali Aitken very promptly answered a particular query I had about 10-metre shooting and his answer was sensible and in accordance with what I understood to be the rule. He was clearly against implementing any unneccessary restrictions and he favoured the least restricitive interpretation of the rule in question.
The incident with the .22 Lee Enfield sounds more like the result of a bloody-minded coach than anything to do with the NSRA. The NSRA hosts LWSR comps and it's shop sells .22 AR lookalikes so it does not seem to be them who would object to the use of a .22 Lee Enfield.
Prejudiced coaches like that one are to be found sometimes at most venues and should be politely told that what you are doing is in compliance with the rules. Such people will never change, I think.
It sounds like there is some dispute over whether it's the NSRA or their insurers who are insisting on these restrictions in respect of handloads.
Maybe, the best thing would be for anyone with a query about safety and insurance issues to attend the NSRA AGM and make a proposal or submit a question.
Registered User
Hi All.
I believe the question of insurance only came about because of some clubs allowing shooters to use Downloaded ammunition in full bore rifles.[not just pistol calibre full bore]no provision was made for this in the NSRA insurance policy.
My policy of last year covers me for Handloaded ammunition, suddenly there was a rumour going about last year that hand/home loading was not covered by the existing policy.
I rang the NSRA and spoke to chap, his words of advice were that, WE have had a query about downloaded ammunition and at this time we are inquiring from our insurers if this practise can be included in our shooting insurance, HAND/HOME loading still was covered. In a matter of a few weeks I was informed that DOWNLOADED ammunition was now included in my NSRA insurance.
Personally I see this as an advantage to me and others that run with NSRA or NRA insurance, I don't think any of the other shooting organisation give you this type of insurance cover for membership.
It would seem as usual you can't please everyone INIT. John F.
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