Scottish airgun licensing debate reminder

[Zachariah]

This may be of interest!


A Bill containing plans to license airguns in Scotland has failed to secure support from all parties in the Scottish Parliament because of a lack of evidence. After a key debate the Scottish Conservatives refused to endorse the Air Weapons and Licensing Bill (Scotland) and said they would oppose the Bill unless the Scottish Government changes its stance on airgun licensing. BASC believes the proposals for airgun licensing in Scotland will do nothing to cut crime or improve public safety and will be a costly and unnecessary burden on police firearms licensing teams. Official government statistics show that airgun crime in Scotland has fallen by 75% between 2006 and 2013. At the same time delays are mounting in licensing shotguns and rifles while Police Scotland intends to slash the number of firearms licensing officers from 34 to 14. BASC is aware of delays of up to nine months in processing applications. BASC has also submitted a Freedom of Information request after airgun crime statistics for 2014 were not published on time.
Nicolle Hamilton of BASC Scotland said: “This is an important marker against the Bill laid down by the Conservative group in the Scottish Parliament. The proposals are, quite simply, not supported by evidence. BASC and other shooting organisations have pointed out the immense difficulties in trying to license the owners of an estimated half a million airguns in Scotland for little or no public benefit. Those intent on criminal misuse of airguns will not apply for a licence so the Bill will do nothing to cut crime. The Police need to focus their resources on the administration of the 75,000 shotgun and firearms certificates on issue in Scotland.
“We are now asking all MSPs to take note of the objections to the Bill and to carefully consider the evidence. Shooting is an important part of life in Scotland. It helps in the management of our countryside and generates £200 million for the economy every year. Country sports tourism is worth an annual £155 million to Scotland. For many people airguns are simply a tool of their trade and are used safely day-in, day-out.
“BASC will now focus its efforts on the next stage of the Bill as it is considered in detail in Committee and is open to amendment. We would like to see sensible legislation based on evidence, not on prejudice and ignorance of the facts.”

[RobF]

I don't conflate voting Nat in the westminster election as supporting the bill in holyrood, which isn't a ban or at least it wasn't last time I looked. This bill isn't lower down on my priority list, my two priorities are shooting and fishing, that'll shift to fishing and shooting, when the midge arrives over the next few weeks.

Anything that adversely affects my sporting pursuits is of issue to me, of course it is, however there are other fish to fry at the moment, and fry they will. I can't alter what is happening all i can do is remain optimistic and make do the best I can.

So, if others see my voting intention as "support for the enemy" then so be it, thats their prerogative. I can't expect people who don't share my view to understand. For my part, I see my position as a lot less hypocritical than say, Cameron Buchanan standing there preaching folly, but not folly enough for his party to vote against it, whilst he represents a party that actually introduced bans, for semi auto CF semi auto/PA shotgun mag capacity pistols et al.

Your a shooter, yet you vote Tory. I don't ask you to justify that or accuse you of hypocrisy, or that you personally supported those parliamentary bans.

There's no way i can justify your assumptions, because they're not correct.

You are supporting the ban/restriction. I know that's a struggle for you, but you either abstain, or vote against, but by voting for the party proposing the restriction is voting for the restriction, it's supporting it.

It was labour that put the Hungerford on the political agenda, and it was them that put .22 into the the pistol ban... sorry, relicensing... i know how they aren't any more banned than what you are supporting, they all can be had still on license.

[codfanglers]

Could any one explain to me, please, how this airgun licensing scheme will affect the average airgun user or collector?
I know of at least one person who is holding ca. 100 airguns in his possession at any given time.
Over time, he purchased and sold as many as 300+.
No, not me.

Do you require some kind of SGC/FAC with a slot for each?
Nah, would be impractical because many airguns dont even have a serial no.

I am German, btw, an new to this forum, although I'm an avid quiet reader.
I used to ferry over the pond occasionally, but this becomes increasingly difficult with all the worsening regulations in place.

My basic understanding is, that the Scot.airgun licence will be granted to every person with a clean background check.
How the Scothorities will achieve this in a timely manner, with but 14 staff, is beyond me, and so far im glad to live a bit further down south...

Kind regards,

Peter

[thisisdonald]

We all have opinions about politics and are entitled.. challenging someones opinion in the manner that some members on here have been doing, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. What do you expect to gain by telling someone that their beliefs are wrong (presumably because theyre different from your own) and question that persons motives for being a member of a public forum .
Sounds like bully boy tactics and mild intimidation.
What i cant understand is the mentality that people should vote based on a parties political stance surrounding their hobby, whilst ignoring everything else. If you want to talk about danger to our ways of life then thats how to go about it.. vote for a party based on their stance toward your hobby or pastime. And dont say its a way of life.. if its a way of life then you will toe the line no matter what legislation comes and finally dont question my commitment to shooting. Ive been shooting for 30 years and i used my opportunity to voice my concerns and opposition to the scottish airgun licensing scheme during the consultation process.
I can only assume that anyone on here questioning a fellow air gunners commitment to the sport also raised their concerns, responded to the consultation, and signed all the petitions... whether you live north OR south of the wall.

If you ask me, this is whats wrong with the shooting community.. no solidarity

[Patrick 2]

Bullyboy tactics and intimidation, I've never heard such crap! The reason I will almost be certainly voting
Conservative or possibly UKIP is because I don't want a minority left wing Labour government aided and abetted
by a party(SNP) that is hell bent on breaking up the Union, which is what would happen if the Labour Party lose most of their seats in Scotland.I also don't like the idea of that old trade union dinosaur Len McCluskey having to much say,after all it was him and his trade union cronies that got Miliband the leadership job.Bearing in mind that any future Labour Government would consist mainly of ministers that were in the previous Labour administration what makes you think they won't cock things up again.As for the Greens,well their policies are a bloody joke, they'd bankrupt the country in no time at all as well as driving industry away if it wasn't considered green in their view.The country would end up a basket case.

[thisisdonald]

Thats fine patrick.. so you agree with everything the conservatives and/or ukip are about? If not then you are in the same boat as me... voting for the party that best represents what you consider to be the right way to move forward.
Ill just make the assumption that im right about that which pretty much makes your comment about 'siding with the enemy' null and void. And thus telling another airgunner that he is supporting the enemy and questioning their reason for being on an airgun forum because they are voting for whatever political party, is a way just a tactic used by bullies to make someone look unpopular to the rest of the group.

it doesnt matter who anybody votes for.. its got nothing to do with you or anyone else. We need to stick together as airgunners and oppose further restrictions any way we can.
squabbling amongst ourselves is not the way forward.

thanks to garvin (who i respect for his massive contribution to airgunning over the years.. i love reading his posts.. looking at his collection pics and seeing him help fellow airgunners with his wealth of knowledge on the old guns) for posting this thread originally, we are all now a little more enlightened as to where we stand as shooters... that's what matters here

[Microtia]

Are you still an SNP supporter who intends to vote for this anti-airgun rabble?

Anyone who shoots who votes labour needs their brains tested

[TonyL]

This may be of interest!


A Bill containing plans to license airguns in Scotland has failed to secure support from all parties in the Scottish Parliament because of a lack of evidence. After a key debate the Scottish Conservatives refused to endorse the Air Weapons and Licensing Bill (Scotland) and said they would oppose the Bill unless the Scottish Government changes its stance on airgun licensing. BASC believes the proposals for airgun licensing in Scotland will do nothing to cut crime or improve public safety and will be a costly and unnecessary burden on police firearms licensing teams. Official government statistics show that airgun crime in Scotland has fallen by 75% between 2006 and 2013. At the same time delays are mounting in licensing shotguns and rifles while Police Scotland intends to slash the number of firearms licensing officers from 34 to 14. BASC is aware of delays of up to nine months in processing applications. BASC has also submitted a Freedom of Information request after airgun crime statistics for 2014 were not published on time.
Nicolle Hamilton of BASC Scotland said: “This is an important marker against the Bill laid down by the Conservative group in the Scottish Parliament. The proposals are, quite simply, not supported by evidence. BASC and other shooting organisations have pointed out the immense difficulties in trying to license the owners of an estimated half a million airguns in Scotland for little or no public benefit. Those intent on criminal misuse of airguns will not apply for a licence so the Bill will do nothing to cut crime. The Police need to focus their resources on the administration of the 75,000 shotgun and firearms certificates on issue in Scotland.
“We are now asking all MSPs to take note of the objections to the Bill and to carefully consider the evidence. Shooting is an important part of life in Scotland. It helps in the management of our countryside and generates £200 million for the economy every year. Country sports tourism is worth an annual £155 million to Scotland. For many people airguns are simply a tool of their trade and are used safely day-in, day-out.
“BASC will now focus its efforts on the next stage of the Bill as it is considered in detail in Committee and is open to amendment. We would like to see sensible legislation based on evidence, not on prejudice and ignorance of the facts.”

Not only of interest, but very promising!

[RobF]

If you ask me, this is whats wrong with the shooting community.. no solidarity

Well that's the logic of saying you're against something, then voting for the party that supports it.

But it's actually shown that voting for local and policies that directly affect your interests is far more productive that voting for the big ideas, as the big ideas aren't really within control of who you are voting for.

So just vote about what matters to you. Got no problem with that, just be honest. Don't confuse the two when it's an either or. Priorities may mean you have to be against something that you were for and vice versa, opinions change, nothing wrong with that. Just be honest.

[Garvin]

Thats fine patrick.. so you agree with everything the conservatives and/or ukip are about? If not then you are in the same boat as me... voting for the party that best represents what you consider to be the right way to move forward.
Ill just make the assumption that im right about that which pretty much makes your comment about 'siding with the enemy' null and void. And thus telling another airgunner that he is supporting the enemy and questioning their reason for being on an airgun forum because they are voting for whatever political party, is a way just a tactic used by bullies to make someone look unpopular to the rest of the group.

it doesnt matter who anybody votes for.. its got nothing to do with you or anyone else. We need to stick together as airgunners and oppose further restrictions any way we can.
squabbling amongst ourselves is not the way forward.

thanks to garvin (who i respect for his massive contribution to airgunning over the years.. i love reading his posts.. looking at his collection pics and seeing him help fellow airgunners with his wealth of knowledge on the old guns) for posting this thread originally, we are all now a little more enlightened as to where we stand as shooters... that's what matters here

Thanks for your kind words, Donald.

But I don't think that calling for solidarity while supporting a party that is actively seeking to harm our sport - and the one we're all here to enjoy - is realistic.

It's like a group of football supporters lodging themselves in the opponents end and cheering for the other side. Except they're also carrying a placard calling for the licensing of football, with a £50 (minimum) fee before you can kick a ball.

You're obviously free to take an overview of what's important to you in politics, and maybe some of the SNP's other policies are very attractive to you. But you can hardly object when others take exception to your vocal support for the very party that is enacting a policy designed to cause lasting damage to us all. And yes, having a functioning licensing scheme for airguns up and running within the British Isles is bad for us down south...

[Garvin]

Not only of interest, but very promising!

Don't be so sure, Tony. This is a BASC press release which is designed to 'look on the bright side'. The fact there was no consensus in the debate doesn't mean the scheme won't go ahead. Hopefully some amendments at the next stage will introduce some common sense, but it's unlikely the SNP will drop the policy altogether. Numerically the opposition is very small, so if they insist on forging ahead with it, they have the votes.

[davidw]

An update with the current process for information only.

Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Bill moves to Stage 2

Yesterday, 23 April, the Scottish Parliament agreed the general principles of the Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Bill by 60 votes to 0 with 12 abstentions. The Bill now moves to Stage 2, the main amendment stage.

The Official Report transcript of the debate is available in both PDF and HTML versions on the website if you wish to read it. You may also watch a video playback of the debate on the Parliament’s TV website.

What happens next?

The Bill is now at Stage 2, the main amendments stage. Only MSPs can lodge amendments to a Bill and any MSP may now do so. Full guidance on how the progress of a Bill takes place is available on the Parliament’s website.

Under the Parliament’s Standing Orders the earliest date on which the Local Government and Regeneration Committee can consider and vote on amendments lodged to the Bill is Wednesday 13 May. The deadline for MSPs to lodge amendments to the various sections of a Bill is 12-noon on the third sitting day before the Committee considers and votes on those sections. Saturdays and Sundays are not sitting days. You should also note that there are three non-sitting week days in the Parliament’s calendar for May 2015. They are Monday 4 May, Friday 22 May and Monday 25 May.

The timings for Stage 2 of the Bill may be changed at short notice – and at any time - subject to the business needs of the Committee and the Parliament. That said, the Convener of the Committee has set out the following schedule for the Committee’s consideration and decision on amendments lodged to the Bill—

· Wednesday 13 May: Stage 2 (Amendments to Part 1 on Air Weapons);

· Wednesday 20 May: Stage 2 (Amendments to Part 2 on Alcohol licensing);

· Wednesday 27 May: Stage 2 (Amendments to Part 3 on Civil licensing provisions - taxi and private car hires, scrap metal, sexual entertainment venues and public entertainment venues - and on Part 4 on General provision)

· Wednesday 3 June: Stage 2 (if required) (any remaining amendments to Parts 3 and Part 4).

Therefore, the deadline for MSPs to lodge amendments to Part 1 of the Bill (on air weapons) will be 12-noon on Friday 8 May (which is the third sitting day before the Committee meeting of 13 May).

Presuming the schedule does not need to be altered, the deadlines for lodging amendments to the other sections of the Bill would be 12-noon on Friday 15 May for Part 2 on alcohol; and 12-noon on Wed 20 May for Parts 3 and 4 on civil and general licensing (this difference is because of the aforementioned non sitting week days on 22 and 25 May).

In the event that all amendments to Part 3 and 4 are not concluded at the meeting 27 May, any remaining amendments would be dealt with on Wed 3 June. Again, all of these dates may be subject to change to accommodate necessary parliamentary work. However, you would be emailed to notify you if this occurs. We will also send out update on our Twitter account: @SP_LocalGovt

After each day on which amendments are lodged by MSPs, they are published in a document called a Daily List. This will show the chronological number of the amendment, the name of the MSP lodging it and the proposed change it seek to the make to the text of the Bill. You will be emailed each time a Daily List is produced.

Any MSP may lodge an amendment to the Bill, and attend a meeting of the Committee and speak in the debate on those amendments. However, only MSPs who are Members of the Committee can vote on the amendments. Meetings are open to the public and broadcast live on our website.

Further information about Stage 2 and how amendments are collated, debated and voted on will be set out in due course. Information on the Stage 3 process (the final amending stage) will be sent out after Stage 2 is completed.

[Patrick 2]

Considering the fact that there was no opposition to the bill(1st reading) apart from a few abstentions I think the bill will go through, as sure as eggs are eggs,in some form or another REGRETTABLY.All we can do now is vote in a way so that the SNP don't have any significant influence south of the border and try along with like minded individuals,the Greens etc to get the same introduced here.

[pneucomer]

Hi there
The people in Scotland don't want indy as yet those had voted yes are now had joined the SNP, The SNP are going to be the king maker by becoming the third largest political party in the GE ,and in two years time there will only handful of non SNP MSP. Would any sound minded MSP vote against the bill ?
This bill is designed to regulate ( kill ) where you can shoot your airgun and the regulation is not even in print yet. This is what this bill all about.
What is the point having licence to own airguns and had to travel 45 minutes to shot it ? Collector !

[DedIdick]

Hi there
The people in Scotland don't want indy as yet those had voted yes are now had joined the SNP, The SNP are going to be the king maker by becoming the third largest political party in the GE ,and in two years time there will only handful of non SNP MSP. Would any sound minded MSP vote against the bill ?
This bill is designed to regulate ( kill ) where you can shoot your airgun and the regulation is not even in print yet. This is what this bill all about.
What is the point having licence to own airguns and had to travel 45 minutes to shot it ? Collector !

Don't believe that Collecting will be considered "Good Reason" to own!