Why do many speak more highly of the Scorpion than the R10?

[Arthur John Smithsplease]

And I wonder if anyone can tell me how many shots you get from a Scorpion in 22.

[riku]

And I wonder if anyone can tell me how many shots you get from a Scorpion in 22.

Scorpion has no regulator so it has less things to go wrong. Early R10s had their share of regulator issues and old style magazines that were used suffered from wrongly adjusted indexing and dirt getting in the magazine. New magazines are more reliable unless you use too short or too soft skirted pellets. The Scorpion itself is the the same basic gun as R10 apart from the regulator and the bottle. Actually Ultra SE also shares all the major components and they seem to gain popularity and get very good reports now.

[Arthur John Smithsplease]

Thanks for the reply.

Yet they still don't seem to sell as well as the AA S410 series, I'm told.

Is it reliability, build quality or shot count that puts some off?

Of just brand loyalty do you think?

[tmstech]

Don't forget aesthetics.

[Gwylan]

The R10 is a pretty rifle, but needs a 230 bar fill in .177, (I know you can fill to less.) Even the Mk 2s have reg problems, and may need to be "Bowketted" to get the best out of them, so another £175 on the price.I wouldn't take one if you gave it to me, (well, I would, but I'd sell it straight on..!) S4*0 work on a 190 bar fill, cost a lot less, and work straight out of the box.

Gus

[riku]

Thanks for the reply.

Yet they still don't seem to sell as well as the AA S410 series, I'm told.

Is it reliability, build quality or shot count that puts some off?

Of just brand loyalty do you think?

BSA managed to stain their reputation with R10 Mk1 and Gamo springers. It will take a long time to fix that. S410 has been around for ages (10+ years?) and those numerous AA fanboys convert many potential buyers to their preferred brand. It's not a bad gun but it also has it's weaknesses and potential problems like most PCPs.

[Gwylan]

BSA managed to stain their reputation with R10 Mk1 and Gamo springers. It will take a long time to fix that. S410 has been around for ages (10+ years?) and those numerous AA fanboys convert many potential buyers to their preferred brand. It's not a bad gun but it also has it's weaknesses and potential problems like most PCPs.

Of course no rifle is perfect, but the S4*0 is pretty good. On early ones, people said the bluing was iffy, but mine have been fine. The old filling valve could leak, and let dirt through, (from a pump,) causing the firing valve to leak, but the new filler valve fixed that. If you used too much oil on the bolt, instead of grease, it could gum up the hammer rod, affecting the consistency over the chrono, hardly the gun's fault. The barrel can shift if you knock it in the field, but check the fig 8 bolts from time to time. I make sure the barrel is straight, ie no crossover, take out one screw and carefully drill a small dint in the threads underneath.Replce that screw, and repeat on the other side, that really locks things up.
Off thread, I can't believe you can't shoot a megabucks Daystate when pointing the rifle upwards, as the thinner probe lets the pellets drop through and jam the action. that's a real design fault that should have been fixed years ago, not fobbing owners off with a £16 (?) spacer kit that should be fitted at the factory..!

Gus

[harvey_s]

And I wonder if anyone can tell me how many shots you get from a Scorpion in 22.

Easy....1 from a proper Scorpion of course

[riku]

Of course no rifle is perfect, but the S4*0 is pretty good. On early ones, people said the bluing was iffy, but mine have been fine. The old filling valve could leak, and let dirt through, (from a pump,) causing the firing valve to leak, but the new filler valve fixed that. If you used too much oil on the bolt, instead of grease, it could gum up the hammer rod, affecting the consistency over the chrono, hardly the gun's fault. The barrel can shift if you knock it in the field, but check the fig 8 bolts from time to time. I make sure the barrel is straight, ie no crossover, take out one screw and carefully drill a small dint in the threads underneath.Replce that screw, and repeat on the other side, that really locks things up.
Off thread, I can't believe you can't shoot a megabucks Daystate when pointing the rifle upwards, as the thinner probe lets the pellets drop through and jam the action. that's a real design fault that should have been fixed years ago, not fobbing owners off with a £16 (?) spacer kit that should be fitted at the factory..!

Gus

To me the biggest issues with S400 series are the mushy firing valve seal which drops the power as gun ages and the thin barrel. They are not bad rifles but IMO they should update the valve system (seal + light hammer + debounce it) to keep up with the competition. A thicker barrel wouldn't hurt either.

[Arthur John Smithsplease]

People have been complaining about the skinny barrel for yonks, but lots of punters still buy them.

I assume therefore that there is no incentive for AA to change the tooling and fit a thicker barrel. If a product sells well, why change it?

I didn't know about the valve issue.

[cliffy]

And I wonder if anyone can tell me how many shots you get from a Scorpion in 22.

I'm not sure people do! I don't own a r10 but have shot one quite a few times and I was very impressed. It hadn't been to mr bowkett and it will probably be my next gun to buy.

[cliffy]

And I wonder if anyone can tell me how many shots you get from a Scorpion in 22.

I'm not sure people do talk about the scorpion and not the r10. I don't own a r10 but have shot one quite a few times and I was very impressed. It hadn't been to mr bowkett and it will probably be my next gun to buy.

[Rapidnick]

The AA S400 series rifles are excellent. Sure they are not the 'best' on the market but you get a very good rifle for a reasonable price. It is always the one I recommend to new shooters wanting a pcp. Although a confirmed Rapid user myself I have owned several S400/410 rifles and often wonder why I ever sold them. The one I particularly remember is a FAC .22 S410 with the full Ben Taylor regulator conversion. Fantastic with spot on accuracy. OK it only did 25 ft lb but with the AA Field pellets that still meant a muzzle velocity nudging 850 ft sec which ensured a pretty flat trajectory over reasonable distances. The cost was very modest-only a little bit more than the cost of the conversion. Terrific rifles-nothing else to say really.

[wezdavo]

To me the biggest issues with S400 series are the mushy firing valve seal which drops the power as gun ages and the thin barrel. They are not bad rifles but IMO they should update the valve system (seal + light hammer + debounce it) to keep up with the competition. A thicker barrel wouldn't hurt either.

I wouldn't say its mushy as its solid nylon, the old problem was grit getting into the seat preventing the valve from fully closing causing a slow leak.. this is now a thing of the past with the new style filler that incorporates a filter..

[riku]

I wouldn't say its mushy as its solid nylon, the old problem was grit getting into the seat preventing the valve from fully closing causing a slow leak.. this is now a thing of the past with the new style filler that incorporates a filter..

There's a thread ongoing on one of the forums about the valve seal getting deformed by the valve seat and blocking the airflow as it goes inside the valve tunnel. The old style seals were not affected but the new ones are. Store your gun charged and this will happen. It's an easy thing to fix if you know what to do but beyond the skills of most gun owners.