Keyholing

[pjinoz]

Thanks for the explainment. However, the rules here in yUK are as explicit as they are annoying. Only LEAD projectiles may be fired in an indoor range, not an alloy, not a bit of lead with a teensy little bit of something else in it, just lead. When the home Office Inspector of ranges, ors the person deputised by him to act on his behal, states that projectiles used in XYZ range are limited to lead, that is exactly what is mean. Lead. Bust. BTW, a gas check on a bullet makes it unusable on and indoor range.

Also, at the price of propellant powder here in UK, most folks try very hard to limit that amount they buy and try to find one powder that will do all the things they want to do I found that 4064 does for most every calibre that I shoot except for .45-70 Govt, .44 BP or .58cal Enfield or Snider.

tac [tac is enough, the foley is my surname]

Hi Tac
I imagine .22 rimfire is usable on an indoor range and if so these projectiles will not be pure lead which has a BHN of 4 (extremely soft) but instead have a little hardening material but not much. I think your friend will have great difficulty trying to get a "long" pure lead .303 projectile to grip the rifling. If I was in this situation I would opt for a shorter (less weight, less torque to spin up) projectile of the type that has most of its length covered with driving bands, seat as close as possible to the lands and back the charge off even if a small wad of dacron is required to keep the charge close to the primer flash.

Cheers

[tacfoley]

Hi Tac
I imagine .22 rimfire is usable on an indoor range and if so these projectiles will not be pure lead which has a BHN of 4 (extremely soft) but instead have a little hardening material but not much. I think your friend will have great difficulty trying to get a "long" pure lead .303 projectile to grip the rifling. If I was in this situation I would opt for a shorter (less weight, less torque to spin up) projectile of the type that has most of its length covered with driving bands, seat as close as possible to the lands and back the charge off even if a small wad of dacron is required to keep the charge close to the primer flash.

Cheers

1. Of course, the indoor range is cleared for rimfire, which is why they exist in the first place, and here, the PTB accept that there is a miniscule amount of hardening material in rimfire bullets, the same as they allow the use of hard-cast bullets in pistol-calibre underlevers and LBRs. What they do not care for are gas-checked bullets.

2. I don't know wither the OP or his friend, or his level of expertise in reloading.

3. This is UK, and you shoot what you get sold. If there is a shorter .311 - .315 bullet out there of the kind that you note, then I haven't the foggiest notion where it might be. In any case, shorter also means lighter, and that is a whole new ballgame in the reloading stakes.

4. As for home-casting, RCBS makes a 187gr mould, Lee makes a 185gr mould and Lyman makes a only a .308cal 152gr mould, clearly not a lot use to our OP's pal. There is only ONE main go-to seller of ready-to-load cast bullets here, and if he doesn't do it, then you are going to have to get a mould made for you by Mr Tanner at a cost of around £150 or so. That's not my call.

tac

[Turnup]

Thanks for the explainment. However, the rules here in yUK are as explicit as they are annoying. Only LEAD projectiles may be fired in an indoor range, not an alloy, not a bit of lead with a teensy little bit of something else in it, just lead. When the home Office Inspector of ranges, ors the person deputised by him to act on his behal, states that projectiles used in XYZ range are limited to lead, that is exactly what is mean. Lead. Bust. BTW, a gas check on a bullet makes it unusable on and indoor range.

Also, at the price of propellant powder here in UK, most folks try very hard to limit that amount they buy and try to find one powder that will do all the things they want to do I found that 4064 does for most every calibre that I shoot except for .45-70 Govt, .44 BP or .58cal Enfield or Snider.

tac [tac is enough, the foley is my surname]

The indoor range which I use has a safety certificate which makes no mention of projectile composition. In Pistol calibres we allow jacketed.......(provided MV and ME limits are not exceeded)....and some use gas checks (beats me as to why though).

[tacfoley]

The indoor range which I use has a safety certificate which makes no mention of projectile composition. In Pistol calibres we allow jacketed.......(provided MV and ME limits are not exceeded)....and some use gas checks (beats me as to why though).

o.

tac

[dodgyrog]

^

Best post here so far. Just a couple of points though -

1. The OP's pal is shooting indoors, on what is ostensibly a pistol calibre range.

2. The range limitations here in UK with regard to maximum velocity [usually 1500 fps indoors] and bullet composition would bang any hope he has of firing ANY kind of high velocity, gas-checked, lead/linotype alloy on such a range.

Here in UK, it's lead only indoors or go somewhere else.

tac

PS - Linotype may now be found in museums here in Yoorup, so where do you get yours?

You can get lucky and obtain Linotype - I obtained 400kg of it and most of it is still to be used.
I find that even range lead from indoor ranges needs cutting with pure lead NOT lino!
IMHO that cast boolits need to obdurate onto the rifling and need the right combination of powder and lead hardness depending on the velocity desired.
115gr Soupcan boolit and 4 to 5gr Viht 310 works fine and keeps me legal in our indoor range.
On the other hand I toughen up my boolits for my .308 outdoor work and can get accuracy and no leading at 2600fps (chronographed not guessed)

[dodgyrog]

The indoor range which I use has a safety certificate which makes no mention of projectile composition. In Pistol calibres we allow jacketed.......(provided MV and ME limits are not exceeded)....and some use gas checks (beats me as to why though).

I have yet to see a range safety certificate that specifies other than velocity and energy!
Correction, that is except military ranges where tracer may be banned.

[loiner1965]

I have yet to see a range safety certificate that specifies other than velocity and energy!
Correction, that is except military ranges where tracer may be banned.

Not sure what our cert says as I rarely shoot indoors but it's always been pistol calibres only

[dodgyrog]

Not sure what our cert says as I rarely shoot indoors but it's always been pistol calibres only

I suggest you read it and see if your elected committee have been imposing unnecessary additional restrictions.
The Cert SHOULD be on display on the range.

[loiner1965]

will read it next time i am in there....
we can use rimfire and pistol calibres too.....even in rifles

[Black Beard]

MOD’s JSP 403 says that ranges where jacketed rounds are fired need thicker back plates, etc.

It talks about jacketed and unjacketed bullets. It doesn’t say anything about gas checks or the type of lead. It doesn’t make any sense to me that a tiny copper cup on the back of the bullet would make any difference to penetration of a lead bullet.

[Turnup]

MOD’s JSP 403 says that ranges where jacketed rounds are fired need thicker back plates, etc.

It talks about jacketed and unjacketed bullets. It doesn’t say anything about gas checks or the type of lead. It doesn’t make any sense to me that a tiny copper cup on the back of the bullet would make any difference to penetration of a lead bullet.

This seems sensible, jacketed are allowed if the range is of suitable construction. Ours has pretty hefty backplates and top and side baffles so perhaps this is why we can shoot jacketed.

An aside: Someone was causing pitting to the backplate (Denver blind style backplates) at the range I use. Small pits not unlike the pitting seen on backplates which have seen a lot of .22 prone action (many many repeated strikes in almost exactly the same place). After a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth, fingerpointing etc it was traced to the mighty .17HMR (I am perfectly serious). Of course the round far exceeded the range MV limit and suitable steps were taken to prevent recurrence. Surprising how it penetrated into the backplate though.

[ug4758]

Bullets tumble, i.e. go through the target at an angle, because they aren't rotating fast enough. There are many reasons for this, some of which have been already mentioned, and some of the mentioned are a bit rare, but the reason is, they aren't rotating fast enough.

[Turnup]

Bullets tumble, i.e. go through the target at an angle, because they aren't rotating fast enough. There are many reasons for this, some of which have been already mentioned, and some of the mentioned are a bit rare, but the reason is, they aren't rotating fast enough.

Or are rotating too fast, or are out of balance (damaged or containing a casting void), or excessively disturbed during launch and have not yet stabilised.

[markwarren]

Well I finally managed to catch up with my mate from the club last night and showed him all of the responses.

He was quite taken aback by the level and depth of responses and would like me to pass on his thanks to you all - it has given him a lot of food for thought.

Cheers

Mark

[EGGY]

Well I finally managed to catch up with my mate from the club last night and showed him all of the responses.

He was quite taken aback by the level and depth of responses and would like me to pass on his thanks to you all - it has given him a lot of food for thought.

Cheers

Mark

Chris needs to stop obsessing about keyholes and get on with his life