Comparison of 3 tuned HW97s - V Glide, Target tune and Paul Short

[Shed tuner]

Not to sound a bit snobish, but I do have a problem with ALL kits... simply on the basis that unless the port / stroke / piston weight is already well setup, they are going to have to be a compromise.

It's also slightly ironic that it can be cheaper and more effective (speaking generally, not talking specifically about 97s here), to sleave down a transfer port, or add a short stroke nose and touch nothing else, rather than invest in a kit that gives you a new seal, spring, guides, TH etc when actually they weren't the area that most needed improvement... if you see what I mean. Rather like a chain being as strong as it's weakest link, same with a tune.

Guns with good basic parameters (e.g. the 99s) DO lend themselves to worthwhile improvements with a basic kit, as that's the bit that's weakest (spring / guide fit). For guns like the TX200 Mk3, a kit is a complete waste of time and money until you have sorted the swept volume (and ideally the port too).

26mm 77s / 97s IMHO are somewhere between the two - need either a shorter stroke or a sleave really, but the spring / guide fit of a stock gun can be quite iffy too, so clearly some benefit there.

Rgds - JB

[neil180]

Not to sound a bit snobish, but I do have a problem with ALL kits... simply on the basis that unless the port / stroke / piston weight is already well setup, they are going to have to be a compromise.

It's also slightly ironic that it can be cheaper and more effective (speaking generally, not talking specifically about 97s here), to sleave down a transfer port, or add a short stroke nose and touch nothing else, rather than invest in a kit that gives you a new seal, spring, guides, TH etc when actually they weren't the area that most needed improvement... if you see what I mean. Rather like a chain being as strong as it's weakest link, same with a tune.

Guns with good basic parameters (e.g. the 99s) DO lend themselves to worthwhile improvements with a basic kit, as that's the bit that's weakest (spring / guide fit). For guns like the TX200 Mk3, a kit is a complete waste of time and money until you have sorted the swept volume (and ideally the port too).

26mm 77s / 97s IMHO are somewhere between the two - need either a shorter stroke or a sleave really, but the spring / guide fit of a stock gun can be quite iffy too, so clearly some benefit there.

Rgds - JB

I could listen to you for hours





I would understand about 3 minutes

[TonyL]

Well I am a little over 30 minutes down the A1 from Retford - I know that as I have played darts there a few times

Yep, that'll be a go-er, thanks Neil.

We'll get together sometime soon to sort?

All the best,

Tone.

[Taz72]

Not to sound a bit snobish, but I do have a problem with ALL kits... simply on the basis that unless the port / stroke / piston weight is already well setup, they are going to have to be a compromise.

It's also slightly ironic thait right it can be cheaper and more effective (speaking generally, not talking specifically about 97s here), to sleave down a transfer port, or add a short stroke nose and touch nothing else, rather than invest in a kit that gives you a new seal, spring, guides, TH etc when actually they weren't the area that most needed improvement... if you see what I mean. Rather like a chain being as strong as it's weakest link, same with a tune.

Guns with good basic parameters (e.g. the 99s) DO lend themselves to worthwhile improvements with a basic kit, as that's the bit that's weakest (spring / guide fit). For guns like the TX200 Mk3, a kit is a complete waste of time and money until you have sorted the swept volume (and ideally the port too).

26mm 77s / 97s IMHO are somewhere between the two - need either a shorter stroke or a sleave really, but the spring / guide fit of a stock gun can be quite iffy too, so clearly some benefit there.

Rgds - JB

Got to admit it has taken me a long time for that to start sinking in:
Having been brought up (so to speak) on 80's, 77's, 97's etc, and had tuned and standard versions if each, my mindset was always that the guides, polishing etc was what did the trick. My experience was std=ok but not great. Decent tune = good.
And the examples I owned seemed to back that up. I even once got rid of what with hindsight was a perfectly good .22 25mm 77k because I thought the shot cycle was harsh and twangy, long before I had any understanding of how easy it would have been to put it right.

In recent years I've cottoned on a bit more to what is involved but even now I don't fully get what makes them tick: My 99s for example was ok but nowhere near as nice as my std stroke/bore tuned 80 (or its similar venom predecessor), yet with a decent guide, spring and minor fettle that same little rifle is now superb.
By the same token I own tuned standard stroke 97's which are to my eyes and hands also very good.
My old-school gut would tell me that the dinky little pistons and less volume being put forward by the likes of yourself, bigtoe et all OUGHT to be inferior, but I've seen them (and I think shot yours) at the bash, and respectfully I doff my hat because clearly they work. My gut was wrong and you guys are right.
I wish someone would put into production a version of what you lot are doing. I've heard rumours of a new weihrauch. It would make my day if it were a proper slimmed-down 97 with 99-esque internals. (HW57 mk2 but with a sliding breech anyone)

[neil180]

Yep, that'll be a go-er, thanks Neil.

We'll get together sometime soon to sort?

All the best,

Tone.

I am off all next week if thats any good to you?

[NickG]

Best tune for a 97 sleave it down with some 26mm OD 23mm ID tube, keep stroke @ 81, job done

So you have done a 97 now as well as the TX, I am considering doing another TX at 21mm, and keeping the mark 3 stroke, I have a comp tube on the way to me as we speak.

[NickG]

Got to admit it has taken me a long time for that to start sinking in:
Having been brought up (so to speak) on 80's, 77's, 97's etc, and had tuned and standard versions if each, my mindset was always that the guides, polishing etc was what did the trick. My experience was std=ok but not great. Decent tune = good.
And the examples I owned seemed to back that up. I even once got rid of what with hindsight was a perfectly good .22 25mm 77k because I thought the shot cycle was harsh and twangy, long before I had any understanding of how easy it would have been to put it right.

In recent years I've cottoned on a bit more to what is involved but even now I don't fully get what makes them tick: My 99s for example was ok but nowhere near as nice as my std stroke/bore tuned 80 (or its similar venom predecessor), yet with a decent guide, spring and minor fettle that same little rifle is now superb.
By the same token I own tuned standard stroke 97's which are to my eyes and hands also very good.
My old-school gut would tell me that the dinky little pistons and less volume being put forward by the likes of yourself, bigtoe et all OUGHT to be inferior, but I've seen them (and I think shot yours) at the bash, and respectfully I doff my hat because clearly they work. My gut was wrong and you guys are right.
I wish someone would put into production a version of what you lot are doing. I've heard rumours of a new weihrauch. It would make my day if it were a proper slimmed-down 97 with 99-esque internals. (HW57 mk2 but with a sliding breech anyone)

A good easy tune for the 97 is piston nose to get the stroke the same as the 99, nothing else, a big improvement, I add piston bearings, and a better guide, but not absolutely necessary.

[TonyL]

So you have done a 97 now as well as the TX, I am considering doing another TX at 21mm, and keeping the mark 3 stroke, I have a comp tube on the way to me as we speak.

21mm? Blimey!

That's going to VERY interesting, Nick!

Might you have it up and running for the Bash?

[TonyL]

I am off all next week if thats any good to you?

Cheers for that, Neil.

Will see what I can do.....I have Wednesdays off. Depending on how many more bikes I have to get out, I might be having the Thursday off as a lieu day for working Bank Holiday Monday.

But......a lot depends on what the Mrs has planned..........With it being Half Term, I'm suspecting she might be wanting to have a day out somewhere with the darling little cherubs!!

Will see what I can work out.

Cheers again.

[NickG]

21mm? Blimey!

That's going to VERY interesting, Nick!

Might you have it up and running for the Bash?

I am afraid I can only make a brief appearance at the bash, to deliver a TX 200 to Maz if he is going, so wont have a gun with me sorry.

[TonyL]

I am afraid I can only make a brief appearance at the bash, to deliver a TX 200 to Maz if he is going, so wont have a gun with me sorry.

That's a shame, Nick, as your guns are always lovely to shoot and it's always interesting to hear how you've gone about re-engineering them.

However, it'll be nice to see you again, no matter how briefly!

All the best,

Tone.