Muskets - drive you potty!

[Jamie]

I went to the club on Sunday and tried the 'bare ball and wads' approach with the harpers ferry. The first few were low and right - the musket seem to shoot all loads down there - so I aimed high left and the next three were in a group about 3" across and in the black. Woohoo, thinks I, i've cracked it. Nope. The last 4 shots were good for height and reasonable for group but right on the left hand edge of the paper, so with the same POA the POI was probably 18" left of the three shots before. At that point it started to rain so I said some rude words and went home!

Any thoughts as to why the POI would shift so drastically?

Thanks in advance, Jamie

Any t

[WarrenC]

Could be load, ball or fouling or the fact muskets were put on this earth to shatter your dreams and test you will. Reason I enjoy shooting them lol

[tacfoley]

I went to the club on Sunday and tried the 'bare ball and wads' approach with the harpers ferry. The first few were low and right - the musket seem to shoot all loads down there - so I aimed high left and the next three were in a group about 3" across and in the black. Woohoo, thinks I, i've cracked it. Nope. The last 4 shots were good for height and reasonable for group but right on the left hand edge of the paper, so with the same POA the POI was probably 18" left of the three shots before. At that point it started to rain so I said some rude words and went home!

Any thoughts as to why the POI would shift so drastically?

Thanks in advance, Jamie

Any t

1. Coriolis effect.

2. How loose are the bare ball?

If they are REALLY loose-fitting, then your 'group' may have been the fluke. I'm betting that there is more than a little 'windage' in play there - that's the clearance around the ball that allows expanding gas to go around it - wads or not.

tac

[Jamie]

The balls won't drop down the (clean) barrel under their own weight - I think if they were any bigger they'd not fit at all!

[airgunnut]

its black powder! you should be happy it goes bang when you pull the trigger!



been there done that, don't care about groupings any-more, just thankful i hit the target broad every time

[WarrenC]

Black powder brings back 'civil' into war lol

[tacfoley]

I'm interested to know why you've changed over from shooting a patched ball to shooting a wadded load. I assume that you have a wad under AND over? TBH, from your description of the bare ball not going down a clean barrel, I'm inclined to opine that you are shooting too big of a ball and that you need to go down a bit so that you can shoot it with a 15-18 thou patch and suitably sized ball.

Mind you, you don't mention which model of HF musket you are shooting - it would be great to know before we go any further, right?

tac

[Jamie]

It was suggested on this thread: http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....ld-my-balls-be

And TALL kindly sent me some .575 ball to try. Yep, wad above and below.

It's a Zoli (navy arms) Harper ' s Ferry in .58 smoothbore.

Cheers, Jamie

[tacfoley]

Ah, I see that it is the Model of 1803 flintlock.

Hmmmmmmmm.

tac

[loiner1965]

Muskets like powder....
The best person to ask about loads is bill Curtis
Put a good measure of bp down there ( they suggest 120 gns ) but I wouldn't
Try a good stout measure in
Place a snug thick wad in the barrel followed by a dollop of lube then a loosely fitting ball then another dollop of lube......then place another snug fit thick wad on top and seat all 3 together on top of the powder

[Jamie]

I was loading 90gr of powder, seems 100-120 is recommended for Besses and they're .75 so I would think 90 in a .58 qualifies as 'stout'!

Thanks for all the help thus far, any more gratefully received!

Jamie

[tacfoley]

OK - just got this from Flash Pan Dan -

Flash Pan Dan
45 Cal.
Posts: 771
Age: 59
Loc: Northern California
Registered on Mon Jun 21 2010
User Options
Tue May 26 2015 07:42 PM - Post#1490758

In response to tac

I started using Mike Beliveau's load in my 28 gauge trade gun and it works wonderfully. I pour down the powder then a ball of tow, then the ball, and finally the another ball of tow. I am shooting this combo into 1 1/2 inch to two inch groups at fifty yards. There are a couple of things that make this combo work. One, my bore at the muzzle is .540 and I am using a .535 ball and two you have to use a pretty stout load of powder, in my case, 85 grains of 3Fg at least. Anything less and I get 12 inch groups. I have shot upto 95 grains of 3Fg with the same success. I hope that helps.


I hafta tell you that every other poster on this thread over on muzzleloadingforum.com says that your musket is rifled.

Are they right, and are you wrong? Or the other way round?

tac

[tacfoley]

Is THIS what you have?

;22G Black Powder Zoli Harpers Ferry 1803 flintlock reproduction with 35 inch hexagonal barrel fitted with rifle type sights, 14 inch stock with patch pocket, weighing 8lbs 11oz sidelock action complete with flint and in excellent little used condition. This really is a lovely shotgun and is ready for use, just add Black powder, wadding and shot. Please ring 07860 720386 anytime 8am-8pm Mon to Sun inclusive. Stock number 1900.
Read more at http://www.gunstar.co.uk/zoli-antoni...Tm3dejqoYwO.99

tac

[enfield2band]

Having a wad in front of the ball could be part of the problem. When the ball leaves the muzzle it could be getting deflected by the wad. The wad will slow down with the air resistance and the ball will have to push it out of the way. If there is a lot of lube between the wad and the ball the wad could stick to the ball and that can cause it to change direction.

This was a problem with shotgun cartridges that had a rolled turnover with a card on top of the shot. The resistance from the air pressure on the card when the card and short charge left the muzzle was putting big gaps in what should have been an evenly spread pattern.

You could get a tight ball that you need to knock down the barrel but you would have to swab the barrel out everytime or it could jam part way down and bulge the barrel

If it is a flintlock try and ensure that the charge in the flashpan is consistent and use as little as possible. If you have too much the powder has to burn through before it ignites the main charge. The length of time you have to hold the gun on target can cause inaccuracy. While the delay might appear to be minimal a momentary lapse of concentration is enough to affect your accuracy.

[tacfoley]

If it is a flintlock try and ensure that the charge in the flashpan is consistent and use as little as possible. If you have too much the powder has to burn through before it ignites the main charge. The length of time you have to hold the gun on target can cause inaccuracy. While the delay might appear to be minimal a momentary lapse of concentration is enough to affect your accuracy.

The Harpers Ferry Model 1803 IS a flintlock, percussion not yet having been invented. However, many of the REAL model of 1842 muskets were converted to percussion around the time of the WoNA. As for your last comment, I agree 100% - learning to shoot a flintlock many years ago meant having to concentrate very hard on maintaining the hold while all the commotion took place just in front of my face. Consistent shooting with a gun that takes its own good time go off - twice - takes endless practice.

tac