Venom

[fatttmannn]

Like a lot of you here respect this fine tuneing house. But how many guns are sold has Venom tunded when all thats happended that someone has fitted a kit Is that tunded or not to me Venom / SFS, Airgun Centre etc is about something thats improvded in operation, smother and better, but a kit can do that so what is Venom to you , full work by them or a kit

[piggy589]

Like a lot of you here respect this fine tuneing house. But how many guns are sold has Venom tunded when all thats happended that someone has fitted a kit Is that tunded or not to me Venom / SFS, Airgun Centre etc is about something thats improvded in operation, smother and better, but a kit can do that so what is Venom to you , full work by them or a kit

As I understand it a Venom tune is one carried out by Messrs Pope and Hancock.
The closest equivalent currently available is carried out by Steve Pope himself.

[hwtyger]

Yr correct. Many are sold as Venom with only stage 1 fitted.
I suppose Steve will keep record of the work he does? (=the actual venom guns)
And real venom guns come with their papers and venom sticker on the action.

[I. J.]

What do you want instantly Venomising? http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...ml?sort=6&o=24

ATB
Ian

[fatttmannn]

thanks for the feedback, no I raised this has I bought a nice Hw 77 a few years back, sold to me by a gunshop and passed by there gunsmith has full Venonm _Lazarglide It had the set back triguer and muzzle break and i Payed a price commensurate with what it was supposed to be. I then had a seriues accident which left my left hand and arm Useless. To make ends meet I decided to thin out some of my collection. I had a buyer linded up for this Venom, but felt I would have it
tunded again and serviced/lubricated to clinch the deal. Imagine my face when it was taken apart and it wasnt Venom at all it was a standard 77, with a sticker on it, nothing more. I couldnt sell the gun has a Venom has it wasnt. I lost £500 on that deal and couldnt do anything about it. Has to serial numbers I dont think Venom kept serial numbers of guns worked on, but basicly if theres no paper work to back up Venom work I wont touch it. I wont get fooled again.

[fatttmannn]

What do you want instantly Venomising? http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...ml?sort=6&o=24

ATB
Ian

No Ian I dont read my reply and you will understand what I am on about.

[Muskett]

As I.J. says there are more Venom stickers than Venoms!

I have a HW77 Venom that has no sticker and no paperwork. However, its short stroke, plus a few other touches, and couldn't be anything else. It puts pellet on pellet.

In the early days of Venom the tuning was just that, lots of polishing. Then it got a bit more advanced with changes in internals, and then laserglide. All sorts went on and off the peg parts to retrofit yourself. Then the number of stock configurations further complicate it all as stocks were whatever was available that month or ordered at the time. Heck, even standard factory furniture with fully worked internals! Frankly, every rifle would need to be taken on its own merrit.

I don't know if records were kept???? I don't know Steve but believe he helps when he can, some rifles he might even remember, but I don't think being deluged to authenticate everything is really fair on him. Venom has a history of its own. Then there a loads of rifles with all kinds of enthusiastic messing about and and several tune stages to be had. So its a mess and adds to the Venom mystique.

There are some who have a lot more knowledge than I and some collectors aren't going to give their hard won knowledge up as they probably took some knocks gaining it. I'm all right Jack I like the one example I have.

[p.sharp]

I'm fairly sure 'Steve - m' pointed out in the past that the Webley venom twin cobras were issued with any Webley venom purchase, which may be true, as I got a couple when I bought a bbmf silencer & f1 kit around 1998.

The 'olde English' stickers, iirc mean venom have actually handled the rifle.

Fairly sure it was Steve m who cleared that up, if not I apologise in advance.

[fatttmannn]

As I.J. says there are more Venom stickers than Venoms!

I have a HW77 Venom that has no sticker and no paperwork. However, its short stroke, plus a few other touches, and couldn't be anything else. It puts pellet on pellet.

In the early days of Venom the tuning was just that, lots of polishing. Then it got a bit more advanced with changes in internals, and then laserglide. All sorts went on and off the peg parts to retrofit yourself. Then the number of stock configurations further complicate it all as stocks were whatever was available that month or ordered at the time. Heck, even standard factory furniture with fully worked internals! Frankly, every rifle would need to be taken on its own merrit.

I don't know if records were kept???? I don't know Steve but believe he helps when he can, some rifles he might even remember, but I don't think being deluged to authenticate everything is really fair on him. Venom has a history of its own. Then there a loads of rifles with all kinds of enthusiastic messing about and and several tune stages to be had. So its a mess and adds to the Venom mystique.

There are some who have a lot more knowledge than I and some collectors aren't going to give their hard won knowledge up as they probably took some knocks gaining it. I'm all right Jack I like the one example I have.

thanks, a lot of info there, but maybe we need to be specific in our qyestions when it says Venom, If I buy another with out paper work I would insist its dismantled afore I part with my money no one ever catches me twice

[Muskett]

Who says your rifle wasn't? Early tunes were just that with maybe the port opened up a tad and a top hat and a few washers. (I'll be happy to be corrected on this). Maybe someone snitched the innards? Do you have a picture?
I prefer to see the old style sticker, but then you might get any combination of tune. Then the Webley partnership! The history of the Gun Trade is full of broken partnerships.

I think we have all been "had" when starting out collecting. Wow don't we all like tinkering with our rifles!!! Price is whatever you think its worth to you, and selling whatever you think you can get away with... ask any gunshop. No worse than second hand cars!! Thankfully, the market is pretty solid and if asking for a premium then it could be a long wait or very fast if thats what someone wants having got tired of looking. Some have the cash and not the time, but the pleasure is still higher than the price tag. Some relish getting a bargain above the actual merits of the rifle. The time sourcing examples for the collection far out weighs any monetary value. Its the fun of the hunt and joy of ownership for a while. Break even and you have done well.

Anyhow it would be nice if some real Venom enthusiasts gave their penny's worth. My knowledge really isn't good enough.

Old picture:
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...IMG_3971_2.jpg

[fatttmannn]

Who says your rifle wasn't? Early tunes were just that with maybe the port opened up a tad and a top hat and a few washers. (I'll be happy to be corrected on this). Maybe someone snitched the innards?
I prefer to see the old style sticker, but then you might get any combination of tune. Then the Webley partnership! The history of the Gun Trade is full of broken partnerships.

I think we have all been "had" when starting out collecting. Wow don't we all like tinkering with our rifles!!! Price is whatever you think its worth to you, and selling whatever you think you can get away with... ask any gunshop. No worse than second hand cars!! Thankfully, the market is pretty solid and if asking for a premium then it could be a long wait or very fast if thats what someone wants having got tired of looking. Some have the cash and not the time, but the pleasure is still higher than the price tag. Some relish getting a bargain above the actual merits of the rifle. The time sourcing examples for the collection far out weighs any monetary value. Its the fun of the hunt and joy of ownership for a while. Break even any you have done well.

Anyhow it would be nice if some real Venom enthusiasts gave their penny's worth. My knowledge really isn't good enough.

Old picture:
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...IMG_3971_2.jpg

cant argue on that, but has I say never again, no papers then strip down no to both then buy, my cash stays in my wallet.

[frogboy]

I have 3 TX200's Venom tuned

the first i sent to them and have all the paperwork so i know they did things to it.

the second i purchased from my Bell target team captain, who i trust implicitly, and Edbear2 having stripped it when the spring broke confirmed the aluminium piston non standard spring etcetera.

The 3rd i purchased off the free ads, and was pleasantly surprised to see a Venom sticker (Olde writing no cobras) when i went to collect it. but when at home i stripped it, OX spring, non standard piston seal so probably Venom? but it had been smashing into the transfer port, steel guide not sure of origin and delrin top hat, probably Venom? So the 3rd i think is a butchered Venom gun.

[I. J.]

Personally - I wouldn't buy a Venom HW unless I could pull it apart first. They are not that difficult and if the seller didn't agree then no sale.
I once bought a HW35E Vixen from a local dealer but took the stock off first to reveal a chrome spring and guide tube. That was enough for me. I bid him £125 and got it!

ATB
Ian

[piggy589]

It strikes me that however much magic the Venom team have worked on the HW range, over the years their creations will in a lot of cases fallen victim to fred in the shed.
In other words the enthusiast who thinks he can still improve on the modifications carried by experts with vast experience.
I'd rather drop a new Weihrauch off with V-Mach or similar and be absolutely sure of my gun's provenance.
I will acknowledge though,for many there is definite mistique surrounding the old Venom partnership .

[Mach 1.5]

Spot on piggy...The Venom team did work magic but you will always get someone who thinks they know better!!! My first Venom tuned rifle was an HW80 back in 1983 when they were located at Trapshot. Once brought a TX200 Ranger and the guy had replaced the Venom spring for an Ox !!! Venom - offen equaled but never bettered and most of the time just copied - Air Arms, Walther. Mach 1.5