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Thread: Lincoln pistol info

  1. #1
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    Lincoln pistol info

    . im told there are 5 different variants and wanted to know which this one is and any other info,please http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/...psfmjmg2b4.jpg

  2. #2
    ccdjg is online now Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    There are at least half a dozen Lincoln Jeffries pistol variants where the cylinder is in the grip, some apparently one-offs, others made sporadically in very small numbers. Yours, as it says on tin, is the Lincoln, the most numerous one, but even so, very rare. A very nice example, but it has been reblued using a method that wasn't around when the pistol was made, as evidenced by the purplish coloration on some of the steel parts, which may be cast rather than forged.
    Last edited by ccdjg; 26-05-2015 at 07:18 PM.

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    What a superb pistol, have to ask what would one of these cost ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sutherland2829 View Post
    What a superb pistol, have to ask what would one of these cost ?
    http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....oln-Air-Pistol
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    bluing

    Quote Originally Posted by ccdjg View Post
    There are at least half a dozen Lincoln Jeffries pistol variants where the cylinder is in the grip, some apparently one-offs, others made sporadically in very small numbers. Yours, as it says on tin, is the Lincoln, the most numerous one, but even so, very rare. A very nice example, but it has been reblued using a method that wasn't around when the pistol was made, as evidenced by the purplish coloration on some of the steel parts, which may be cast rather than forged.
    i was not aware this had been re blued, the purple coloration i have on many old pistols i was told this is a reaction with the original bluing on cast metal which may take over 70 years to turn purple

  6. #6
    ccdjg is online now Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    One can never be 100 per cent certain about these things but all the evidence points to a reblue. I am not a metal finishing expert, but I have seen quite a number of Lincoln Jeffries pistols, and these appear to have either been acid (rust) blued or heat blued, (or rarely nickel plated). The blueing does not seem to have been of best quality and and is often largely worn off, and for example the blue does not seem to survive as well as the blue on Webleys of similar age. With examples where the blue (or strictly speaking, black) has been well preserved it is a characteristic greyish-black, similar to that found on per-War Webleys, rather than the deep jet-black that your cylinder and barrel show, which is more like that on post-War Webleys. This type of black is typical of hot alkali blueing, which to the best of my knowledge was not available in the 1920's.

    As far as the purplish coloration goes, I do know that this occurs when the hot alkali blueing process is used on guns which are made of a combination of drawn,forged and cast steel components. At temperatures which give the deepest black on non-cast steel, the cast steel tends to acquire the purple colour. This occurs straight out of the bluing bath and does not need any long term aging to be produced. This two tone effect is well known with post-War Webley Juniors, where the cast frame often has purplish tones while the barrel and cylinder are jet black.

    As far as I know, acid blueing processes do not give these purple colours , but I would be happy to be contradicted on this.

  7. #7
    ccdjg is online now Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    Now not so sure

    I have been digging into my Lincoln pistol files and studying your photographs more closely, and I am not now quite as confident as I was that your pistol has been reblued. It would take a close inspection of the pistol itself to be absolutely sure one way or the other, looking for example at the depth of colouring, for any pits or scratches that might have been blued over, and comparing the degree of colour fading between exposed and unexposed parts of the gun.
    Although none of the various Lincolns that I know of that have a reasonable amount of original blueing remaining match the colour characteristics of your gun (see for example http://www.network54.com/Forum/68145...ncoln+Jeffries), I notice that the serial number of your pistol is exceptionally high (1112; highest number yet recorded 1213) which means that it could have been one of the few made well into the 1930's and so might have been blued by a different process to most. This could also explain why the finish has survived in such good condition. I am very dubious about the "whiting in" of the lettering though, as this has never been reported before and if original has survived remarkably well.

    Does anyone else have a high serial number Lincoln with similar blued characteristics to this example? It would add a lot to our knowledge of these rare pistols if this were the case.

  8. #8
    ccdjg is online now Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    Well, I seem to have been able to answer my own question. I have continued digging into my files and have now found details of a late Lincoln pistol with well preserved original finish. This pistol is actually an extended cylinder Lincoln with serial number 1212, which places it pretty close to yours in age. (The standard Lincolns and extended cylinder variants were serial numbered together.)
    You can see from the colour photo here
    http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...pszbvq2pkg.jpg
    that this has reddish tints to the cast steel parts and a deep black to the cylinder and barrel, similar to yours.

    So unless there are obvious signs of reblueing on physical inspection, I would now say that your pistol has almost certainly not been reblued and is one of the best preserved examples of the standard Lincolns I have come across. To keep in this condition I would have thought that it had spent most of its life in its original box, but that would be too much to hope for – an original box for the Lincoln has yet to be discovered.

    Apologies for my original scepticism, and congratulations on a unique find!

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    Just to add to this about reblue, l had a Lincoln pistol se/no 862 that had been reblued at some time, l don't know when, but l think it was in moden times.and that had the two-tone bluing.

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    Very nice example.
    As far as I can see it has been refinished (in the 'Webley look').
    There is no wear on all the usual areas and has been noted there appears to be pitting and areas of staining under the refinish.
    Can't see in the pictures, but look at the front of the cylinder where the cocking arm connects. The slot where the spring is visible will have sharp edges if not used. Through use the sharpness is removed apart from just under 1cm at each end. There may also be lines in the cylinder from repeated cocking. Certainly the cocking wears the finish quite noticeably.
    Also as there is clear evidence of pitting and staining, there is no sign of even dulling of the blue on the cylinder or barrel that I can see?
    Even if it had been kept in a box these last 70+ years, I can't imagine that it would have picked up some rust, but no wear on the high points of the cylinder where these always show silver.
    The highest serial number noted is 1218

  11. #11
    ccdjg is online now Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slinky-power View Post
    Very nice example.
    As far as I can see it has been refinished (in the 'Webley look').
    There is no wear on all the usual areas and has been noted there appears to be pitting and areas of staining under the refinish.
    Can't see in the pictures, but look at the front of the cylinder where the cocking arm connects. The slot where the spring is visible will have sharp edges if not used. Through use the sharpness is removed apart from just under 1cm at each end. There may also be lines in the cylinder from repeated cocking. Certainly the cocking wears the finish quite noticeably.
    Also as there is clear evidence of pitting and staining, there is no sign of even dulling of the blue on the cylinder or barrel that I can see?
    Even if it had been kept in a box these last 70+ years, I can't imagine that it would have picked up some rust, but no wear on the high points of the cylinder where these always show silver.
    The highest serial number noted is 1218

    Interesting and valid comments. There is no substitute for examining a gun in the flesh.

    Thanks for the updated highest serial number. Has this been documented anywhere, and do you know if this was a standard Lincoln or one of its variants?

  12. #12
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    Unframed Dave is offline World pork pie juggling champion three years straight
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    This is mine, the serial number is 711, although the trigger stamped 712, bizarre?

    http://imgur.com/gallery/pFYR2/new

    Scroll down the page to see all pics. First time I've used Imgur, thanks to whoever suggested it last week, doddle to use.

    Dave

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    For what it's worth, my understanding was that the original finish on these pistols was not particularly deep and it was consequently very rare to find one with a significant amount of blue remaining.

    Regards

    Brian

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    Mine is a target version by Lincoln Jeffries Junior S/No. 2003 with a deep blue finish,no trace of any brown.

    Pictures here.

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/67054...pistol+no.2003

    Chris.

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    Very nice.

    Dave

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