Measuring Overall Cartridge Length (newbie alert)

[BigGun1]

[QUOTE=tacfoley;6721438]Cheap method - uses a fired cartridge case and a bullet that you can use again.

1. Take your once-fire case and neck size it.

2. With a fine-blade hacksaw, cut three or four slits in the neck down as far as the shoulder.

3. Insert the bullet - it should be held fairly tightly by the neck, in spite of the slits, which act as a spring-loaded 'retainer'. Insert it just far enough to be held without falling out.

etc, etc, etc

QUOTE]

Bang on how I do - But Tac described it better than I could manage

[tacfoley]

But Tac described it better than I could manage

Sir, you are too kind to a poor old fart what tries his best...

tac

[Elliott]

Cheap method - uses a fired cartridge case and a bullet that you can use again.

1. Take your once-fire case and neck size it.

2. With a fine-blade hacksaw, cut three or four slits in the neck down as far as the shoulder.

3. Insert the bullet - it should be held fairly tightly by the neck, in spite of the slits, which act as a spring-loaded 'retainer'. Insert it just far enough to be held without falling out.

4. Use a felt-tipped marker to mark the bullet all round.

5. Insert the complete item into the breech and close the bolt.

6. As the bullet touches the rifling, that will push the bullet into the case.

7. Carefully open the action, and drop the case with the bullet in it gently into your waiting hand.

8. You now have a dummy cartridge that exactly fits into YOUR breech and 'just' touches the rifling. Exactly WHERE it touches the rifling will be indicated by rifling marks in the felt-tip marking, if you see what I mean.

9. Using the calipers we told you to buy a couple of months ago, carefully measure the OVERALL LENGTH of the COMPLETE CARTRIDGE. Let us say that it is 2.75"

10. Whatever that measurement is, begin reloading a series of cartridge, using the same style of bullets, at 0.010" shorter than 2.75". You are now making a finished cartridge that is 0.010" SHORT of the lands of the rifling, for a start, and see how you get on. Some rifles like a bigger 'jump', but remember that being actually in contact with the the rtifling at the moment of ignition meansa that the pressure will peak virtually instantly - having even the slightest 'jump' will reduce that effect by a small amount, possibly resulting in an increase in accuracy. You can increase the amount of shortness by 0.005" at a time until you get the resaults you want. My Krico 650SS likes a 'ten 'thou jump' with Lapua Scenars, but shooting VLD Bergers I have to make allowances as the ogive is so long that the bullet would have nigh-on disappeared up thr barrel by the time it touched the rifling.

Remember, too, that this will be different of every type of bullet, as has been noted here many times. The longer the ogive, the more the bullet needs to be set out of the case in order to touch the lands - the opposite is therefore true - old-style, short ogive bullets will need careful finagling.

Expensive method. Buy a Stoney Point cartridge length gauge, or whatever it's called now, for about £50 - 60, that does exactly the same thing, but looks really spiffy.

You choose.

tac in Port Orford Oregon, about to go to a HUGE bar-b-q.

What a cracking idea! I'll certainly be giving that a try. Thanks very much for taking the time to explain the method. Picking up my FL Hornady dies tomorrow and bought some digital calipers off a couple of weeks ago

[richness]

Probably the single most important reloading tool. http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-...traight-1Each/

[Elliott]

Probably the single most important reloading tool. http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-...traight-1Each/

Thanks Rich, will give that a try.

It is amazing how much stuff is needed to reload. Anyone new to reloading would think that a 'kit' gives them all they need but I'm finding that there's more and more bits that I need. I'm still building up the gear before attempting to start. So far I've got:

1. Hornady Lock 'n' Load Classic Kit (press, powder thrower, trickler, digital scales, hand priming tool, chamfering and deburring tool)
2. FL sizing dies and seating die
3. Digital calipers
4. Lee case length gauge and shell holder for power drill (awesome little tool by the way)
5. Hornady case sizing wax

Still need:

1. Ultrasonic cleaner for brass
2. OAL gauge (and possibly Hornady Comparator Body and Anvil Base)

[223AI]

Thanks Rich, will give that a try.

It is amazing how much stuff is needed to reload. Anyone new to reloading would think that a 'kit' gives them all they need but I'm finding that there's more and more bits that I need. I'm still building up the gear before attempting to start. So far I've got:

1. Hornady Lock 'n' Load Classic Kit (press, powder thrower, trickler, digital scales, hand priming tool, chamfering and deburring tool)
2. FL sizing dies and seating die
3. Digital calipers
4. Lee case length gauge and shell holder for power drill (awesome little tool by the way)
5. Hornady case sizing wax

Still need:

1. Ultrasonic cleaner for brass
2. OAL gauge (and possibly Hornady Comparator Body and Anvil Base)

The thing is you don't Need anything more than is in the kit, apart from dies,calipers and consumables, but you soon realise there are lots of items that will make it easier, quicker and possibly create more accurate ammo. You don't really need an OAL gauge if you use any of the methods above but it potentially will measure more accurately and if it makes you more confident in your loads then fair enough. I've managed fine without one so far and my loads shoot plenty accurately enough for me.

If you can find one cheap a small pillar drill is good combined with the case length gauge as it leaves both hands free, whilst spinning a quick polish with ultra fine wire wool gets the cases nice and shiny and removes the external burr.

[tacfoley]

Probably the single most important reloading tool. http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-...traight-1Each/

My post, way back in Post #2, notes the earlier name of this VERY expensive little item, and shows you an almost FREE method of doing exactly the same thing using an old case and a bullet of the kind that you are going to be shooting.

tac

[blue]

once fired brass or sanded/reamed/sized with something like a K&M sizer. Gun upside down, depending on caliber you can drop a bullet in from the rear or if not bullet in before you chamber. Use a cleaning rod with 2 (makes it tighter) o rings on and push the rod in until the bullet stops (not too hard). Withdraw rod carefully to avoid dragging them. Reassemble case and bullet outside of the gun.
Just make sure the case is tight in the chamber (I use a shotgun wooded cleaner rod section).
In many cases (especially European 243s) where you cant get the bullet on the lands before it is out of the case with lighter bullets. 223s with TNTs are also a challenge as tend to be too long for the magazine.
I tend to start all my loads at bullet diameter depth. It is quite often the case that bullets on or into the lands is not the best position.

[Elliott]

The thing is you don't Need anything more than is in the kit, apart from dies,calipers and consumables, but you soon realise there are lots of items that will make it easier, quicker and possibly create more accurate ammo. You don't really need an OAL gauge if you use any of the methods above but it potentially will measure more accurately and if it makes you more confident in your loads then fair enough. I've managed fine without one so far and my loads shoot plenty accurately enough for me.

If you can find one cheap a small pillar drill is good combined with the case length gauge as it leaves both hands free, whilst spinning a quick polish with ultra fine wire wool gets the cases nice and shiny and removes the external burr.

You're not wrong Boydy, must admit, I am enjoying collecting the bits and bobs.

My £30 ultrasonic cleaner arrived today. I threw some once fired brass in with 1 cup of warm water, 1/4 cup of white vinegar, tablespoon of salt and a squirt of washing up liquid. Put the timer on for 6 mins and they came out looking pretty good bar a couple of marks in the primer pockets

My post, way back in Post #2, notes the earlier name of this VERY expensive little item, and shows you an almost FREE method of doing exactly the same thing using an old case and a bullet of the kind that you are going to be shooting.

tac

Thanks Tac, duly noted as I mentioned above. I'll certainly be giving that a try before I consider investing in an OAL guage. I'll be sure to let you know how I get on

[223AI]

My post, way back in Post #2, notes the earlier name of this VERY expensive little item, and shows you an almost FREE method of doing exactly the same thing using an old case and a bullet of the kind that you are going to be shooting.

tac

I used your method the other day Tac for the first time as I was loading 69 gr TMKs which wouldn't leave a lot of room for powder if seated to SAAMI length, worked perfectly so measured the 3 different bullets I'm planning on load testing over the next couple of months to give me a start point.

Used a Dremel with 2 fine cuts as I found I just beat the neck up with the hack saw!!

[kennyc]

You're not wrong Boydy, must admit, I am enjoying collecting the bits and bobs.

My £30 ultrasonic cleaner arrived today. I threw some once fired brass in with 1 cup of warm water, 1/4 cup of white vinegar, tablespoon of salt and a squirt of washing up liquid. Put the timer on for 6 mins and they came out looking pretty good bar a couple of marks in the primer pockets



Thanks Tac, duly noted as I mentioned above. I'll certainly be giving that a try before I consider investing in an OAL guage. I'll be sure to let you know how I get on

Tac's method is cheap and reliable, no need to get too anal at this stage try some seaclean from Maplin in the US cleaner I have found it works very well and its not expensive as you only use a small amount each time

[Marten]

Forget all the 'off the lands' faff it is totally unnecessary. Load to book COL and then crimp with a Lee factory crimp die.
If you ask the reason why most attempt to load just off the lands you will not get a straight answer - coz they do not know in reality.
The Lee FCD negates the buggering around measuring this distance and achieves a consistent shot start pressure (what the jump to the lands is all about).

[richness]

Blimey Marten that's a bit of a leap mate.
Jump to the lands is about optimal barrel exit timing within the harmonic 'shake' of the barrel on firing.
I don't see any work class accuracy shooters using crimp dies lol!!
No disrespect meant but don't start Elliot off on the wrong foot here
Richard Utting

[kennyc]

Blimey Marten that's a bit of a leap mate.
Jump to the lands is about optimal barrel exit timing within the harmonic 'shake' of the barrel on firing.
I don't see any work class accuracy shooters using crimp dies lol!!
No disrespect meant but don't start Elliot off on the wrong foot here
Richard Utting

the guy is just starting out! no need at this point to introduce crimp dies or distance from lands, K.I.S.S

[Marten]

Blimey Marten that's a bit of a leap mate.
Jump to the lands is about optimal barrel exit timing within the harmonic 'shake' of the barrel on firing.
I don't see any work class accuracy shooters using crimp dies lol!!
No disrespect meant but don't start Elliot off on the wrong foot here
Richard Utting

So telling me not to start Elliot off on the wrong foot yet you start waffling on about OBT?

OBT is not taken care of with the jump into lands exclusively, the powder load is the major factor. OBT can be tuned just as easily from COL moving a few thou either way.
I'm trying to keep it simple for a novice, so don't worry about a jump into lands or even measuring it, just load to book length - simple.
As to competition dudes they need a mental edge over their competitors hence all the puffery n bs.