Proper reviews

[Terry D]

Reviews? Pah. No matter if it's guns, motorbikes, cars, restaurants or wimmin's clothing it all comes down to the prejudices of the tester.

Don't agree, Fitz. 'Prejudice' is 'pre-judice' or pre-judgement, and that's not the same as reporting on something as you find it. Preconceived notions don't stand up to chrono tests or accuracy results on a target card. The aesthetics are a matter of taste, but 'prejudices' have no place in testing airguns.

Just saying.

[longsider]

Terry you must get soooooooooooooooo fed up of constantly having to defend and explain you position. I do admire the way you never (that I have seen) lose your temper and start calling people rude names

Terry is the editor of a magazine that ,as you are aware , constantly gets questioned on why they seemingly never get a bad air rifle to review . I certainly wasn't asking him to justify himself or confronting him in any way regarding his integrity . I was just explaining why , to a layman , the reasons for his positive reviews will invite conspiracy theories . I think the reason he doesn't lose his temper and call people rude names is because he is a grown man with the ability to get his views across without it . also as a magazine editor and while his readers are calmly and politely asking him to explain his methods of writing for the magazine I think , in general , part of his job description requires him to engage with his readers and answer their concerns in the same controlled manner .

[Gollum]

People have a right to question things, Gollum, and provided it's done with a reasonable degree of manners, I'll return the favour. I'll always challenge misguided, or flat-out untrue statements, on here and anywhere else, and I'm always accessible to those who genuinely want to know the truth, rather than simply gob-off and spout lies to serve their sad agendas.

I agree, still doesn't stop it being hard work for Terry tho, and he still does remain very calm and reasoned

[RichardH]

On at least three occasions in the last three years, the manufacturer/importer has specifically requested me to take one of the demo models from a show or game fair, and test it for the magazine. That was the desired evaluation and it gave me valuable info when I interviewed those who staffed the ranges where the rifles were used. They won't be the last ex-demo rifles tested, I assure you of that.

Hi Terry

While I can see the value in that as to an external opinion of a gun after some use (and probably abuse) as a rule Longsider has to be right, to send out an unchecked random gun to a magazine test, possibly a models very first in the public press would be a very brave thing for any manufacturer in any industry.

I would have a great deal of confidence if a test said at the beginning "we collected this rifle straight from 3 days of abuse on the have a go stand" it would be a brave manufacturer though think?

[fitzcarraldo]

Don't agree, Fitz. 'Prejudice' is 'pre-judice' or pre-judgement, and that's not the same as reporting on something as you find it. Preconceived notions don't stand up to chrono tests or accuracy results on a target card. The aesthetics are a matter of taste, but 'prejudices' have no place in testing airguns.

Just saying.

But then, you extoll the virtues of ... an Audi.

QED

[cumbrianbob]

Hi spewy,
I have a RAW HM1000 .20 thumbhole laminated stock as you know,
The rifle has carbon shroud and silencer, its not the quietest rifle ive had but it's not bad,
It is well made (like a tank, the stock looks and feels superb,
the side lever is slick and easy to use, its regulated and accuracy really excellent in my opinion( using h+n ftt)
I can put a full mag in side hole no bigger than 10mm at 30 yards which is good enough for me.
But I suppose most rifles will do that with a bit of practice,
but everyone has different taste in rifles, I think it would be a boring place if we all had the rifle if you know what I mean.

atb bob.

[nimrod177]

No probs, Rodders. I've tested the Wildcat in the latest edition of Airgun World, and the Pulsar a few months ago, albeit the most expensive version, so there's a comparison to be made there quite easily. Perhaps a side-by-side comparison would be on the cards in the future. I'm not a fan of repeating so much information but perhaps these rifles are special cases. We'll see.

Thank you for the reply and i for one would look forward to it with great interest however it's the bobcat i am more interested in as a comparison. The wildcat is in a sub 1k group and the bobcat is in the +1k group. You could always do a comparison between the wildcat and a Viking which my mate has just taken delivery of. To be fair it is also a very worthwhile rifle from what i have seen of it so far. So how about the two+1k rifles and in the same article sub 1k rifles now that would be a very interesting read indeed. To be fair i have the expensive version and am not overawed to the extent that i think it is worth the asking price but it is certainly growing on me the more i get to use it.

[BTDT]

I would have a great deal of confidence if a test said at the beginning "we collected this rifle straight from 3 days of abuse on the have a go stand" it would be a brave manufacturer though think?

I think it was the last airgun I reviewed, Richard, (an FX Verminator) that was collected from the have a go stand at the CLA, where it had been used for three days.

[Spewy]

Hi spewy,
I have a RAW HM1000 .20 thumbhole laminated stock as you know,
The rifle has carbon shroud and silencer, its not the quietest rifle ive had but it's not bad,
It is well made (like a tank, the stock looks and feels superb,
the side lever is slick and easy to use, its regulated and accuracy really excellent in my opinion( using h+n ftt)
I can put a full mag in side hole no bigger than 10mm at 30 yards which is good enough for me.
But I suppose most rifles will do that with a bit of practice,
but everyone has different taste in rifles, I think it would be a boring place if we all had the rifle if you know what I mean.

atb bob.

Thanks for your reply bob and on my topic👍
Your gun as I said should not be shot it should be on the mantle piece.
I only had a few days with my sporter before I went to sea but long enough to realise I had something special in my eyes anyway and before I left sold hw95,ultra Se,hw100kt that's how confident of keeping this gun.solid beautiful to look at and a full lefty.

[Terry D]

Hi Terry

While I can see the value in that as to an external opinion of a gun after some use (and probably abuse) as a rule Longsider has to be right, to send out an unchecked random gun to a magazine test, possibly a models very first in the public press would be a very brave thing for any manufacturer in any industry.

I would have a great deal of confidence if a test said at the beginning "we collected this rifle straight from 3 days of abuse on the have a go stand" it would be a brave manufacturer though think?

I would hope ALL guns are checked before a manufacturer sends them out to anyone, Richard, be that to shops, or reviewers, as part of the QC procedure.

As Jim said, it was done with an FX, and I recall a Weihrauch HW100 model being supplied from the range at the Midland Game Fair. I'm sure I mentioned this in the test, too.

It's rare, but it definitely happens. The point is, the test guns are not specially prepared, non-representative examples.

[Terry D]

But then, you extoll the virtues of ... an Audi.

QED

Not a clue how that statement is connected to your incorrect use of 'prejudices', Fitz, but I can confirm that the two Audi vehicles I've owned during the past six years have been faultless, superbly comfortable, extremely efficient, and backed by an amazing degree of customer service. So, yes, I most certainly do extoll such virtues. I hope your car serves you as well as my Audi does me.

[banksy!]

Don't agree, Fitz. 'Prejudice' is 'pre-judice' or pre-judgement, and that's not the same as reporting on something as you find it. Preconceived notions don't stand up to chrono tests or accuracy results on a target card. The aesthetics are a matter of taste, but 'prejudices' have no place in testing airguns.

Just saying.

But by your own admission you don't report on everything as you find it. If a product is not up to standard, your readers do not get to hear about it, because you have said you send it back until it is improved. In this way, you are only offering good reviews, while sub-standard products remain available for sale.

If you remove all the bad apples from the barrel before counting, you are obviously going to have a barrel of 100% good apples.

This is what people are complaining about; not that you are publishing dishonest reviews. I think you're (perhaps deliberately) missing the point.

[Punchsteve]

But by your own admission you don't report on everything as you find it. If a product is not up to standard, your readers do not get to hear about it, because you have said you send it back until it is improved. In this way, you are only offering good reviews, while sub-standard products remain available for sale.

If you remove all the bad apples from the barrel before counting, you are obviously going to have a barrel of 100% good apples.

This is what people are complaining about; not that you are publishing dishonest reviews. I think you're (perhaps deliberately) missing the point.

He's already explained this is not the case several times in this thread.

But I think some people are (perhaps deliberately) missing the point.

[countryboy]

But by your own admission you don't report on everything as you find it. If a product is not up to standard, your readers do not get to hear about it, because you have said you send it back until it is improved. In this way, you are only offering good reviews, while sub-standard products remain available for sale.

If you remove all the bad apples from the barrel before counting, you are obviously going to have a barrel of 100% good apples.

This is what people are complaining about; not that you are publishing dishonest reviews. I think you're (perhaps deliberately) missing the point.

Perhaps the easiest way to resolve the question of the integrity of reviews in airgun mags is for someone..... Anyone, to give an example of a gun that was reviewed as excellent, but turned out to be a real lemon. Is that a fair challenge???.

[RichardH]

I would hope ALL guns are checked before a manufacturer sends them out to anyone, Richard, be that to shops, or reviewers, as part of the QC procedure.

As Jim said, it was done with an FX, and I recall a Weihrauch HW100 model being supplied from the range at the Midland Game Fair. I'm sure I mentioned this in the test, too.

It's rare, but it definitely happens. The point is, the test guns are not specially prepared, non-representative examples.

I am sure Jim is right in that instance, put yourself in the shoes of a manufacturer, new model, first review in print....


Your sample needs to be representative, no extra fancy walnut or aftermarket tuned guts of course but wouldn't you expect the production manager to make damn sure it was the best example he could find and checked and double checked to be the best that business could offer?

I would!

I would be particularly impressed with any product review where a manufacturer simply gave you a demonstrator after 3 days of abuse by the game fair public though