and they all shout "why buy a gun from europe"

[banksy!]

Not a lecture about firearms law, delivered by the GTA to the HO, then? Surely, given the complexity of this issue, the HO would need detailed explanation of the 'various categories of firearm' in order to decide 'how the law pertains to each'? This is just my take on it.

You claimed I either made something up, or I know more than I'm saying. Neither is true.

You said,

...ALL attendees were discussing how the law is applied to the examples involved.

The HO state that the meeting was "a demonstration" and "a lecture" by the GTA. They declined to give names of attendees under the FOI regulations on the basis that it was not a discussion.

Please think before you make untrue allegations about me in future.

It doesn't require much thought to see that the HO version is different from yours. You seem to be making rather a lot of assumptions based on a very flaky press release, that's all.

[evenbad]

I've looked for the thread you mention, and it's deletion reason states that it was temporarily deleted as a list of shops on a forum paid for by a businessman who sells a lot of the same sundry items, may not be on. However, as the thread was really more orientated towards the import of guns, which our sponsor does not sell, I'll discuss this further with the mods and admin and if they cannot see a problem with it, perhaps the thread can be restored.



What fear of retribution? It's a forum on the internet. And no, we do not routinely pm posters every time we have to edit, move, or delete a post or thread, otherwise we'd be on here all day without getting anything done.

In fact, the fact that you have been able to continue derailing threads with this issue, what I would personally say amounts to trolling, and at the obvious prompting of certain members on other forums, counters your argument about fear of posting.

Now, Terry won't mention it, but I will. Your tone towards a person who has been nothing but polite with you, and has patiently and endlessly deciphered your posts and answered your comments, some of them over and over, does you no credit at all.

Thought it wont take long for a you to start a slanging match and try and get me into a situation where as I could get my lights switched off as Robedge quoted on here. I have answered TD from the beginning on all his points which he has made ! yet on mine he is very selective which I have stated? When he states to me the words BACK DOWN AS ALLWAYS , yes I am going to answer him in a manner which I see fit , also when he states I am if you like a protected parent to out sport ! yes I am going to say WE ARE NOT LIKE CHILDRED AN WONT BE TOLD WHAT TO DO! Nothing wrong in wording or using such phrases but be prepared for a answer back which you may or may not like.
As for hijacking thread your are delusional I apologised to the OP on the wildcat thread openly on my post [ TRY READING ITS IN ENGLISH AND FOR ALL TO SEE also Pm,d and apologised
to him, so spoken like a BOSS hey I have the power and not accountable to anyone , if you cant be objective in your approach hang up your badge as an admin , also asked admins [ SEE JACKALS REPLY! to reopen S/A thread as its not going to go away by archiving , pulling call it what you may , and I will say something as well if you cant take it don't dish it out! think that's a phrase as well!

[Mog]

[/B]

Thought it wont take long for a you to start a slanging match and try and get me into a situation where as I could get my lights switched off as Robedge quoted on here. I have answered TD from the beginning on all his points which he has made ! yet on mine he is very selective which I have stated? When he states to me the words BACK DOWN AS ALLWAYS , yes I am going to answer him in a manner which I see fit , also when he states I am if you like a protected parent to out sport ! yes I am going to say WE ARE NOT LIKE CHILDRED AN WONT BE TOLD WHAT TO DO! Nothing wrong in wording or using such phrases but be prepared for a answer back which you may or may not like.
As for hijacking thread your are delusional I apologised to the OP on the wildcat thread openly on my post [ TRY READING ITS IN ENGLISH AND FOR ALL TO SEE also Pm,d and apologised
to him, so spoken like a BOSS hey I have the power and not accountable to anyone , if you cant be objective in your approach hang up your badge as an admin , also asked admins [ SEE JACKALS REPLY! to reopen S/A thread as its not going to go away by archiving , pulling call it what you may , and I will say something as well if you cant take it don't dish it out! think that's a phrase as well!

You are either looking for a ban or just lacking in politeness, either way you're going too far.

[Terry D]

Simple!

It rips off it's customers, treats them like an inconvenience, and has done for years.

How specifically has 'the industry' done this? In previous correspondence, you have claimed that the UK airgun industry doesn't have the financial will to develop new guns, so it's trying to ban SA guns from overseas. You have no basis of any kind for this claim, and the constant development of new UK based guns makes a total nonsense of it, but you never let the facts get in the way of your nonsense theories, do you?

To be honest I'm tired of your 'GTA might is right' songbook, to my mind it has overtures of the miners, dockers, BL workers and look how well that ended. Virtually extinct now..... Just in case you missed the world moving on.

See? Pure nonsense yet again. When have I ever said 'GTA might is right'? Not once, not ever. Never. 'Overtures of the miners ...'? Dear oh dear.

[maz001471]

well said evenbad .
it seems to me that when people speak out and it does not fit in with admin or mods [like at school] then they get all funny about it and then posts disappear or folks get banned [bigtoe01]
as i see it it is only some characters on a screen [ its not like some one is beating you with a stick],
so why can't people have their say and admin or mods accept it?

[Terry D]

You said,

The HO state that the meeting was "a demonstration" and "a lecture" by the GTA. They declined to give names of attendees under the FOI regulations on the basis that it was not a discussion.
It doesn't require much thought to see that the HO version is different from yours. You seem to be making rather a lot of assumptions based on a very flaky press release, that's all.

What 'very flaky press release' was this? Please explain.

'There was no discussion about any other subject, so it was not necessary to take any minutes.'

From this, I took it that the discussion was solely on the subject of how the law pertains to the firearms in question. Are you saying that there was a meeting between three organisations, and only one of those spoke? No discussion, no questions? Now that would seem odd. But then, as I keep saying, I wasn't there any more than you were.

[RobF]

well said evenbad .
it seems to me that when people speak out and it does not fit in with admin or mods [like at school] then they get all funny about it and then posts disappear or folks get banned [bigtoe01]
as i see it it is only some characters on a screen [ its not like some one is beating you with a stick],
so why can't people have their say and admin or mods accept it?

Because sometimes, quite frankly it's bollocks.

Coming from an admin (me) on this very subject, I've also had 1-2 people post insinuations about actual physical people with jobs involved in the sport, on my forum. And whilst there's banter, and discussion, no matter either way if I agree with the status quo or wholly object, I'm not about put my forum on the line, put someone's job & reputation with their colleagues and clients on the line, all because someone read something on the internet somewhere and decided that it fitted with their conspiracy view of the week and kept banging on about it.

So where actual evidence can be shown, I'm all for discussions about it and it's ramifications. But where it's pure conjecture, allowing someone to have one's say isn't a very clever thing to do. Because those who just decide to post unverified opinion wouldn't like it if someone stuck a big sign outside their work place with some unverified opinions and conjecture about them.

[evenbad]

You are either looking for a ban or just lacking in politeness, either way you're going too far.

Totally disagree with you entirely honest and some may say outspoken there is nothing offensive in my post above at all but when Steve punch gives his personal view I am surely going to give mine back at him so to speak as we are men not children and I for one will answer him in the manner it was received if you think it being offensive its not so, if that what warrants a ban so be it . Definitely not going to retract my post and doubt very much he will do the same on his , so in this world of ours we got to agree to disagree! Hey its a forum after all!!!

[Mog]

Originally Posted by Logunner Simple!

It rips off it's customers, treats them like an inconvenience, and has done for years.

How specifically has 'the industry' done this? In previous correspondence, you have claimed that the UK airgun industry doesn't have the financial will to develop new guns, so it's trying to ban SA guns from overseas. You have no basis of any kind for this claim, and the constant development of new UK based guns makes a total nonsense of it, but you never let the facts get in the way of your nonsense theories, do you?

To be honest I'm tired of your 'GTA might is right' songbook, to my mind it has overtures of the miners, dockers, BL workers and look how well that ended. Virtually extinct now..... Just in case you missed the world moving on.See? Pure nonsense yet again. When have I ever said 'GTA might is right'? Not once, not ever. Never. 'Overtures of the miners ...'? Dear oh dear.

Come, come, Terry, surely nobody believes that the GTA or AMTA are happy with their UK members/retailers losing income because people are saving money by buying from the continent, whether SA or not?

[Terry D]

well said evenbad .
it seems to me that when people speak out and it does not fit in with admin or mods [like at school] then they get all funny about it and then posts disappear or folks get banned [bigtoe01]
as i see it it is only some characters on a screen [ its not like some one is beating you with a stick],
so why can't people have their say and admin or mods accept it?

OK, so you'd be fine if someone rocked up on here with whatever agenda they had against you for whatever reason and claimed you were a ... well, you join the dots. Seriously, would you believe the Mods should just 'accept it'? Of course you wouldn't.

[Terry D]

Come, come, Terry, surely nobody believes that the GTA or AMTA are happy with their UK members/retailers losing income because people are saving money by buying from the continent, whether SA or not?

I have no idea how many shooters are buying abroad, or how traders are being impacted by this, Mog, and I've not had a single discussion with a single retailer on this subject. I suspect it's an insignificant number, but without facts, I can't say for sure.

I do know that no business enjoys losing trade, whether it's to the shop next door, or someone in another country, but that's surely the nature of being in business, isn't it? Even so, that's an awful long way from attempts to get guns banned and trade restricted, isn't it? Unless you, or anyone else, has some genuine evidence to support any such claim, of course.

[evenbad]

OK, so you'd be fine if someone rocked up on here with whatever agenda they had against you for whatever reason and claimed you were a ... well, you join the dots. Seriously, would you believe the Mods should just 'accept it'? Of course you wouldn't.

Hang on a minute TD. I have no agenda as such unlike GTA they protect their members , you advise or better word would be offer constructive criticism on various air rifle, products etc as its your chosen profession, I have never started to make untoward personal remarks apart from where you use certain phrases which I have given an example to one of your admins which he expresses his personal view of me and I replied accordingly!
Again I ask you about the LP50 air pistol which has been sold by GTA members over the last 5 years or so without retribution ! I again state like you I am no expert as to the mechanics of this S/A air pistol but I am 95% sure that it is similar or identical to my Steyr H5 and I am postive Rockdrill who has more knowledge than me will add his expertise and put me straight on this,
Please could you clarify how you came to this assumption or your take on this matter!
My take on this is easy if the sub 6/FT/IB LP50 is legal why is my low power sub 12/FT/IB is illegal! and again I remind you the wording CAPABLE of exceeding this power setting not to cross into Section 5 territory ! as it is factory set at 16 Joule which I can assure you better than any AT fitted to a number of air rifles !!

[Mog]

I have no idea how many shooters are buying abroad, or how traders are being impacted by this, Mog, and I've not had a single discussion with a single retailer on this subject. I suspect it's an insignificant number, but without facts, I can't say for sure.

I do know that no business enjoys losing trade, whether it's to the shop next door, or someone in another country, but that's surely the nature of being in business, isn't it? Even so, that's an awful long way from attempts to get guns banned and trade restricted, isn't it? Unless you, or anyone else, has some genuine evidence to support any such claim, of course.

No, no evidence Terry but the way this whole affair has been conducted, just a strong suspicion. 'Evidence' seems to be sadly lacking from anyone.

[shauny]

im sorry i started this thread now, its getting a bit drawn out

[Mog]

im sorry i started this thread now, its getting a bit drawn out

Don't be, you opened a can of worms that needs airing.