and they all shout "why buy a gun from europe"

[pumpygun]

i'm struggling too even though i live in 'affluent' surrey,i have no mortgage because i worked my arse off and got that noose from around my neck.i drive a tatty little car but i absolutely WILL NOT buy from abroad,i support my local rfd and always will.end of.

Id love to support my rfd as much as the baker, the butcher, the candlestick maker and whatever other local firms are around. But the harsh reality is if you can buy the very same product from somewhere else and save hundreds of pounds it doesn't make any sense paying for the dearer version.
I've seen some of the margins my local rfd has on new guns and I think people would be shocked, they dont make that much. A second hand gun will normally be more profitable than a new one. But here lies the problem, exactly who is it that makes the huge gains? Because if Europe can sell me the same product but with a sometimes 30% discount theres something wrong somewhere along the line.

[larrylamppost]

there is very little profit in air rifles,the dealers are struggling and something like this hits sales even harder.i know most of the trade prices and there really is very little in it,when i managed a gun shop it was hard enough to sell a weihrauch because of the low prices that sgc was selling their grey import hw's for,it must be even harder now.
i feel sorry for the rfd's because the finger of blame seems to be pointed at them.

[Rob M]

I've shopped at most of the gun shops around Derbyshire and to be honest the service has more often that not been very poor. The nearest one has no idea what airguns he has in stock, and can't be arsed to check when you phone up, and if you go in the shop when his shotgunning mates are in he can't even be arsed to talk to airgunners. The next nearest shop is ok but doesn't have many airguns in stock though they're ok for pellets. The next nearest one promises deals then goes back on his word and sells PCPs with unsuitable bottles, lumbering unknowing customers with unsellable, useless bottles. The two next nearest shops are ok but don't have a big range and don't like getting guns in even for serious punters to look at, one is also particularly expensive. The next nearest shop is run by a bunch of idiots, one of whom sometimes shoots the shop assistants that work for him with airsoft pistols, states that items are in stock when they aren't (very annoying if you've driven all the way there to find that you can't buy what you rang up and checked about after all). The prices in these shops vary but none are particularly economical, some are bloody expensive.

I'd like to buy locally even if it's expensive, but the price differential between here and Europe is ludicrous, and as I've outlined above, various of these shops won't get my business because they're run by gits who simply don't deserve it. If their businesses go to the wall due to competition from Europe it's no great loss to customers or the sport in general.

[larrylamppost]

it would appear that most people buy from europe for purely financial reasons,in my opinion that is a very small minded reason for doing so and i implore those who are thinking of doing so to have a long hard think about the impact to the uk industry who through no fault of their own will be suffering because of these buying trends.

[banksy!]

it would appear that most people buy from europe for purely financial reasons,in my opinion that is a very small minded reason for doing so and i implore those who are thinking of doing so to have a long hard think about the impact to the uk industry who through no fault of their own will be suffering because of these buying trends.

As stated many times, very often it is the fault of the UK suppliers who, quite apart from price, often offer poor service.

Also, remember that this is a buying opportunity for the UK customer, only because the Euro is currently low against the pound. When the worm turns, as it always does, we will have an opportunity to export more. Such is the free market economy.

[Hemmers]

it would appear that most people buy from europe for purely financial reasons,in my opinion that is a very small minded reason for doing so and i implore those who are thinking of doing so to have a long hard think about the impact to the uk industry who through no fault of their own will be suffering because of these buying trends.

And service reasons.

I've imported a .22lr from Germany. Quite aside from the fact that it was literally 25% cheaper than the UK price (£1800 vs £2400 - with the best will in the world, I couldn't and still can't afford a £600 premium on a £2000 purchase just for the feel good factor), the German dealer bent over backwards to look after me. Prompt replies to emails, etc, etc.

My UK quote took 4 calls and 3 weeks to extract. One would almost think the dealer didn't want my business... if I call you and ask for a quote, and you promise to call me back with a quote and then don't, I'll take my business to someone who wants my money.

It's all very well wanting to support UK dealers, but if the dealer won't give me a price I can't!

If you're mostly dealing with shotgunners, and a target shooter asking for a quote on a target rifle is an inconvenience, then by all means tell me that you don't have an Anschutz trade account (even if you have one for getting sporter rifles on), and that it isn't something you can help me with - by all means tell me to go away and look elsewhere so you can get on with whatever your stock-in-trade is. But don't waste my time promising to send me a quote and then not That's just piss poor customer service, and I don't value businesses that don't value their customers.

Look after me by contrast, and I'll buy thousands of rounds of ammo, all my cleaning kit and all the toys and accessories I need through you. I put most of my trade through a dealer in Cardiff, and a well known retailer from Northern Ireland, because they look after me, have been happy to exchange bits (even when it was my fault for ordering the wrong version of what I wanted with the wrong thread), and generally provide what is known in the world of retail as "Customer Service"

As stated many times, very often it is the fault of the UK suppliers who, quite apart from price, often offer poor service.

Also, remember that this is a buying opportunity for the UK customer, only because the Euro is currently low against the pound. When the worm turns, as it always does, we will have an opportunity to export more. Such is the free market economy.

It's also a buying opportunity for the UK Dealer. If you're forced to go through a UK distributor, then that can be a problem. That said, I know one German manufacturer who sold direct to a UK customer when they realised their UK "importer" hadn't ordered product in 18 months (i.e. hadn't been out selling the product to UK dealers), so if the "official" importer is being a pain, dealers can always try developing direct relationships and connections to the manufacturer.

If the pound is spiking, go and stock up. Okay, there are cash-flow limitations, but if you have lines that shift in decent quantities (popular rifles like CZ452s, etc), then buy in stock whilst it's cheap. If the pound dips again, you have stock which you can sell (at a profit) for less than you can import the rifle for at the new, unfavourable rate.

Alternatively, get a Euro account and if the pounds spikes, convert some money into Euros whilst they're cheap so you can offer a better price (based on the strong conversion rate) when the pound dips again. The reality is that this is a very international market with only a few UK manufacturers. Pellets, non-Eley ammo, and a lot of firearms are coming from Europe and the USA.

Dealer's can't be blind to the prevailing exchange rates. It's no good buying stock whilst the pound is weak and wondering why people are grey-importing when the pound spikes and EU dealers can undercut your stock by hundreds of pounds.

[RobF]

And service reasons.

I've imported a .22lr from Germany. Quite aside from the fact that it was literally 25% cheaper than the UK price (£1800 vs £2400 - with the best will in the world, I couldn't and still can't afford a £600 premium on a £2000 purchase just for the feel good factor), the German dealer bent over backwards to look after me. Prompt replies to emails, etc, etc.

My UK quote took 4 calls and 3 weeks to extract. One would almost think the dealer didn't want my business... if I call you and ask for a quote, and you promise to call me back with a quote and then don't, I'll take my business to someone who wants my money.

It's all very well wanting to support UK dealers, but if the dealer won't give me a price I can't!

If you're mostly dealing with shotgunners, and a target shooter asking for a quote on a target rifle is an inconvenience, then by all means tell me that you don't have an Anschutz trade account (even if you have one for getting sporter rifles on), and that it isn't something you can help me with - by all means tell me to go away and look elsewhere so you can get on with whatever your stock-in-trade is. But don't waste my time promising to send me a quote and then not That's just piss poor customer service, and I don't value businesses that don't value their customers.

Look after me by contrast, and I'll buy thousands of rounds of ammo, all my cleaning kit and all the toys and accessories I need through you. I put most of my trade through a dealer in Cardiff, and a well known retailer from Northern Ireland, because they look after me, have been happy to exchange bits (even when it was my fault for ordering the wrong version of what I wanted with the wrong thread), and generally provide what is known in the world of retail as "Customer Service"

Pretty much sums it up.

Somethings are worth what they are worth. Somethings you want and don't mind paying for customer service for.

But I'm still waiting for a reply to an email and in hours answerphone message i left last year for a (from Germany £100 spare, i never found out the price from the uk) part. Since then I've done probably £700 in spares from the German dealer that answered in their 2nd tongue an email, and got the order spot on, delivered to my door, and told me when the invoice was raised, when my payment had cleared, and when the item was ready for dispatch, when it was dispatched and gave me a tracking number.

Seriously, when you pay 30-50% more over here and get bad service then I think it's actually doing your fellow shooter a disservice to keep supporting these 'businesses' that basically take you for a plum.

There are good UK businesses. But there are some shockers out there, with top quality brands attached to them. For the item I quoted the £1150 saving would allow me to fly with the gun to the country, hire a car, stay in a 5 star hotel, and then fly back, and get an S-class to take me to and from the airport. That's if it goes wrong.

If shops are struggling, they need to have a word with their distributors. I've seen the trade prices for one brand, i know exactly how much is made from here to there.




And one thing that gripes me, and is supposed not to happen by UK trading standards, is shops putting VAT on AFTER the advertised price. You're not business to business, give it a rest.

Rant over.

[Rich]

Hemmers has it right. A 20% loading on a price of say £50, makes it £60, if I get the service and/or don't have to travel, I'll pay the extra tenner.

But when the margin is £600, I mean, that is close to three weeks' take home pay in this part of the world, no amount of added value will clinch that sale.

To those who see this as a philosophical argument and a matter of principle to support the local dealer, try spending your principle vouchers in Tesco when you have a family to feed and a rent to pay. For many of our club members who enjoy their sport on a Sunday morning, that is the reality.

[rogb]

With you on that Hemmers.
I have just received 3 hours ago a MEC trigger and some Walther weights from Buinger in Germany. I tried to buy them from a Walther dealer in Sturgeon-land but they didn't return my numerous calls and messages, and when I finally got through, they said it would be 2 weeks+ to order the part.
My order from Germany even with €15 DHL shipping was £20 cheaper than here (for the trigger alone).

The same Scottish dealer stocks my rifle too, at some £500 premium to what I paid delivered and configured to my spec from Hasselhorst, the comms were excellent and prompt, I just leaned on Google Translate so I could reply with accuracy and I hope politeness.
I also got a load of service parts from Judith Billharz over there, all perfectly packed and promptly delivered.
Germany 1 - UK and Scotland 0 I'm afraid.

[evenbad]

it would appear that most people buy from europe for purely financial reasons,in my opinion that is a very small minded reason for doing so and i implore those who are thinking of doing so to have a long hard think about the impact to the uk industry who through no fault of their own will be suffering because of these buying trends.

Couldn't agree with you more buy British pay over the odds and be proud of what you have done mm then I woke up . Its a competitive world out there for all to see ! either, embrace change and be part of it by competing with EU by whatever means necessary !! RFD,s need to start looking to buy from abroad and take advantage of our currency while it lasts, surely RFD,s can see that the bubble has burst and start competing with an ever growing market for air rifle sport
My father wouldn't buy anything other than British due to his experiences WW2 . .
. PHILLIPS, HOOVER, Woolworths shop in the local Co op ETC sadly all gone and so as my dads generation PS Thank god we still have Dolly Mixtures fav sweets of all time!

[Andylaser]

Has anyone bought second hand from Germany?
Just wondering if dealers there keep stocks of used items and what prices are like?

[Arthur John Smithsplease]

Just a word of caution if you are buying from a German dealer. The power limit for air rifles in the Fatherland is 6.6 ft lbs, and unless you are buying from a licensed exporter that's what you will get. Not much good for hunting, then...! In Germany hunting with air rifles is forbidden for that very reason.
Good luck with your imports.
Dave

You can buy a UK mainspring for about 11 euros , have it posted with the gun, and fit it yourself for nothing.

[Arthur John Smithsplease]

I still buy from British gunshops whenever possible.

I got my LGU from BAR, and my two Weihrauchs (99s and 30s) from Macavoys. They are good shops, and there are several others I would still buy from. They are all a good distance from where I live though.

I have to say however that there seems to be a poor attitude to customers and service in some British gunshops. I have been lied to, treated rudely and ripped off in several in the past.

And I'm sick of having to make a purchase with some cammo clad regular standing at the counter, gossiping with and distracting the sales assistant. In some of these places I have almost felt apologetic about buying something. I mean, who was I to interrupt their conversation. In some place I have stood at the counter and been ignored for a full fifteen minutes. These people don't deserve to make a living. The term "pond life" springs to mind.

[RobF]

Couldn't agree with you more buy British pay over the odds and be proud of what you have done mm then I woke up . Its a competitive world out there for all to see ! either, embrace change and be part of it by competing with EU by whatever means necessary !! RFD,s need to start looking to buy from abroad and take advantage of our currency while it lasts, surely RFD,s can see that the bubble has burst and start competing with an ever growing market for air rifle sport
My father wouldn't buy anything other than British due to his experiences WW2 . .
. PHILLIPS, HOOVER, Woolworths shop in the local Co op ETC sadly all gone and so as my dads generation PS Thank god we still have Dolly Mixtures fav sweets of all time!

Psst.

Hoover is American.
Philips is Dutch.

[rogb]

Psst.
Woolworths was American too

Hoover is American.
Philips is Dutch.

Couldn't agree with you more buy British pay over the odds and be proud of what you have done mm then I woke up . Its a competitive world out there for all to see ! either, embrace change and be part of it by competing with EU by whatever means necessary !! RFD,s need to start looking to buy from abroad and take advantage of our currency while it lasts, surely RFD,s can see that the bubble has burst and start competing with an ever growing market for air rifle sport
My father wouldn't buy anything other than British due to his experiences WW2 . .
. PHILLIPS, HOOVER, Woolworths shop in the local Co op ETC sadly all gone and so as my dads generation PS Thank god we still have Dolly Mixtures fav sweets of all time!