Chiappa FAS 6004

[Aimstraight]

.....Of the various parts in the trigger mechanism, the trigger pivot pin is fixed in place, the sear and hammer are not, and the latter was removed quite easily. The hammer had what looked like wear on the bent – full cock ‘notch’, if you will – and its front face below this, where it gets dragged past the sear on cocking (this is visible looking behind the trigger when opening the gun). I didn’t notice what these surfaces looked like brand new: would this really have just been left as the rough unfinished edges of the steel laminations – and still expect to get a decent trigger pull?

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...Chiappa/08.jpg....Iain

Thanks for the update. Can you please clarify what the above photo is showing....the parts look very rough?

[Inspector 71]

Should the 6004 actually be on sale? It would appear that the poor parts' finish renders this pistol not fit for purpose?

I'm very glad I have a fabulous 604 MkII.

[RobinC]

Should the 6004 actually be on sale? It would appear that the poor parts' finish renders this pistol not fit for purpose?

I'm very glad I have a fabulous 604 MkII.

Come on be fair! It is Italian after all! And form will always over rule function, Alfa cars? Ducati before Audi bought them?

The old ones were also a bit Italian, my Mk 1 bought new (lost count of the years, 32 years ago?) despite being very regularly and heavily used is still working perfectly today, my MkII also bought new, the seals went inside the first hour of use and it was full of swarf, but its perfect now.

As one who has had most makes of Italian motorcycles (and still has 3) you don't neccessarily buy Italian and expect it to work, its part of the charm!

Have fun, and good shooting.
Robin

[TRS1]

An old thread... But any recent knowledge of new 6004s... Old threads seem to suggest QC issues.

Any recent purchasers of new ones here?

[Fishguy]

I picked one up here in Canada last year. It's been faultless since purchased. None of the issues previously mentioned. Perhaps they have sorted out the QC issues? The seals have lasted, the fit and finish is excellent. There are a couple other guys over here who also bought the 6004 and all are as impressed as I. I wouldn't think twice about recommending one.

[I. J.]

2mm steel screw into alloy block for the elevation adjustment?

Great if it doesn't need adjusting.

[Aimstraight]

An old thread... But any recent knowledge of new 6004s... Old threads seem to suggest QC issues.

Any recent purchasers of new ones here?

There is a fairly recent thread HERE, although it is not clear whether the issues reported were on the 'latest new' stock or 'new old' stock. If you are keen on one, maybe a thorough inspection and test would be in order before purchase (including checking the sights and target penetration at your indented distance).

[RobinC]

I've not seen the new 6004 ones but I do hear the issues which have arisen, it is a very good design (near enough the same as the original 604) and as a design its an excellent SSP match air pistol, if you want one, don't buy a new one and risk the issues, there are plenty of original S/H 604's, go for the Mk2's with the excellent grip, get a better pistol and pay less.

Have Fun
Robin

[brucieboy]

The main problem with the newer 6004 are the quality issues. I've had one for a while I bought second hand,it was fine for a few weeks then I noticed the barrel kept creeping back and losing a good contact between the barrel o-ring and the breech face losing power to the extent the pellet wouldn't come out
I loosened the barrel clamp and tapped home the barrel to the breech face and when I tried to tighten the clamp one of the screws just kept turning without tightening up enough,the thread in the over-lever was stripped.The holes are only m3 in to aluminium,it's just not man enough for the job beyond the first assembly.Like a one use bolt.
I put it away for months before deciding to butcher it or bin it.There just isn't the room to re-tap a bigger hole,in the end I drilled right through the over-lever m4 and pushed m4 bolts through from inside and nuts on the outside.The nuts pulled the bolt heads through and pinched the barrel tight.
It looks a right state but it does work.I certainly wouldn't buy another that's for sure.

[Aimstraight]

Thanks for the update. Can you please clarify what the above photo is showing....the parts look very rough?

Right, I have had a look and see what this is...it first looked like the sear, but they call this the hammer To be more precise (on mine) it's the two outer edges that make contact/do the work, these have been polished/worn to give a good clean let off. The pressed steel parts on the insides seem to be to add strength/rigidity (they call this the internal hammer). This engages with a pressed steel part (they call the pawl...this seems to be the sear) that in turn is operated by the trigger.

[Iain K D]

Thanks for the update. Can you please clarify what the above photo is showing....the parts look very rough?

Just to clarify what I'm referring to, the trigger mechanism consists of three essential parts from front to back (look at the cross section of the 604 and the 6004 manual explaining trigger adjustment):
Firstly, the trigger blade,
Behind that an arm pivoted near its lower edge and running diagonally up and forward - the sear. The trigger blade contacts the top end of this arm via the two adjustment screws set into it (the trigger, that is).
Thirdly the hammer (ignore how the hammer is made, and that it has a mainspring and guide attached).
Once the gun is cocked, the hammer is held back by the bottom, inner edge of the sear engaging a lip on the hammer - that is the face you can see in the picture.
Now in order to cock the gun, the at-rest hammer has to be pulled past the sear and it may be that this has caused wear similar to that in the picture on the front face of the hammer - as you look at the picture, the bottom edge immediately round from the polished area.
I say this may be wear, as I find it hard to believe that to get a good trigger pull you would rely on the rough unfinished edges of the laminations that make up the hammer - this is not a B2 or a 'Webley' Typhoon. So, maybe this had already been ground up a bit to get a nice sharp edge to give a crisp trigger pull - I don't know.
Construction wise, the trigger blade is alloy.
The sear is blued steel but - from memory - nothing overly solid, only stamped/folded.
The hammer is four steel plates permanently fastened/riveted together - the outer two being a different shape, so as to fit around the valve stem (and also the mainspring guide rod).

Iain

[Iain K D]

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...Chiappa/17.jpg

This is the gun partially opened: the trigger mechanism has started to move - remember it is attached to the air cylinder - and the sear is being dragged past the front face of the hammer. See how rough the face of the hammer is here.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...Chiappa/16.jpg

This is now open enough to cock the hammer (and still open, hence the position of the trigger). The bottom edge of the sear has engaged with the hammer. On the front face of the hammer you can see the rough, laminated construction as it disappears into the frame and a glint closer to the sear - just below what might be called the full cock notch.

The question is - is this just wear or would this be brought to a sharp corner in the interest of a good trigger pull?

Iain

[Aimstraight]

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...Chiappa/17.jpg

This is the gun partially opened: the trigger mechanism has started to move - remember it is attached to the air cylinder - and the sear is being dragged past the front face of the hammer. See how rough the face of the hammer is here.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...Chiappa/16.jpg

This is now open enough to cock the hammer (and still open, hence the position of the trigger). The bottom edge of the sear has engaged with the hammer. On the front face of the hammer you can see the rough, laminated construction as it disappears into the frame and a glint closer to the sear - just below what might be called the full cock notch.

The question is - is this just wear or would this be brought to a sharp corner in the interest of a good trigger pull?

Iain

Just had a closer look at mine with a bright Cree led torch. There seems to be some variability in finish between our pistols! The last 5mm of the visible part of the hammer has been polished to remove the rough stamp markings on the inner and outer laminations. Regarding the earlier photo that showed the shoulder of the hammer that the sear latches when set, mine has a more regular profile across the four laminations and also appears to have been polished on the last 5mm.

The minimal marks on yours appears to be (normal) wear, whereas on mine it appears to have been deliberately profiled.

This not the only difference as previously mentioned, the casting near the breach is painted black on mine (bare on yours), the plastic end cap on mine is black (white on yours), the bottom edge of the barrel has been chamfered (not on yours which snagged the alloy casting), and mine has no shim on the barrel (present on yours).

I will try to get some close up photos, but it might be difficult in situ (I have no plans to strip the pistol).

[Aimstraight]

Thanks Iain, all clear now. I noticed that 16.jpg in your bucket shows the finished assembly (trigger blade, sear, hammer).