Scottish Law and New Cert

[Robo]

Morning All,

I was Just was wondering what everyone intends to do with this possible new law coming in up here in Scotland?

I have not been following it too closely but I wondered if anyone knows if the law is now a formality and we are waiting for it to kick in next year or, would a good QC be able to reverse or challenge the decision, or reform the rules? I know BASC was lobbying, but does anyone know how much actual cash they spent on the process or if they just sent allot of emails? I'm not trying or wanting to offend anyone at BASC, so please don't take it that way, but it would be good to know what level they took it to. Petitions are normally a waste of paper - but a good QC...they can cause allot of pain!

I'm also wondering if I should now crank up the power on my HW 100 to say 13lbs and have it sit on an FAC. I assume this is OK?

My problem with this law is that I always opted for an Air Riffle for the simplicity of it. Ammo is cheap and there is no regulatory cost or admin. Now that the government are creating a burden - there is no longer any incentive to stick with an Air Riffle and thus, they have removed the regulatory disincentive for me to get an FAC.

So I'm thinking about getting a .22LR for general shooting rabbits and a 2.43 or 2.70 for deer stalking, although I'm leaning toward the 2.70 for Red stags, as I think the 2.43 is OK for Red Hinds, but too light for Stags. I live close to some great Stalking (Reds, Fallow and Roe), so it should not be too difficult to get a license.

So, if I get the power increased on the air riffle so that it sits at FAC level, am I correct in thinking; I don't have to mess around with the the air gun certificate...or would I need:

1. Air riffle certificate for my FAC air riffle, and
2. FAC for the .22 and the 2.70?

I'm assuming it's only the FAC I would need? Even then, the daft thing about this legislation is that the legislation's net effect on me (and I expect allot of people in the air gun community) will be an upgrade to FAC. In my situation, I will be upgrading to FAC, buying two new high powered riffles, one of which is extremely powerful, and I will be increasing the power on my current air riffle...so I will own more guns with more power, as there is no longer any disincentive to get the FAC. The American Gun Lobby must think this Scottish Air Riffle Legislation is great - a home run - the Scottish Government are shooting themselves in the foot - pun intended!

Thoughts?

Best regards

R

[tacfoley]

I was Just was wondering what everyone intends to do with this possible new law coming in up here in Scotland?....Now that the government are creating a burden
R

Faintly interesting subject, but, alas, nothing to do with me, pal, or anybody else that doesn't live in the same country as you do. I live - if that's the right word to use - in England. It's YOUR government, not mine. After all, the majority of you voted for the SNP, I didn't. You are already a foreign country with your own laws on education, taxation, money-making, legal system and new firearms legislation. I'd say that basically, you're ****ed.

As for the American 'gun lobby', whatever that might be, I think you'd find that most Americans, let alone those whose interest lies in shooting sports, are of the opinion that Braveheart was the real name of Mel Gibson, and that all of Scotland looks like the various whiskey/whisky adverts, and that everybody wears a kilt, even down the whiskey/whisky mines. The very least of their worries are the foibles of a bunch of loons three thousand miles away and their rather odd take on airguns.

tac
Life Member of the real NRA

[Robo]

Faintly interesting subject, but, alas, nothing to do with me, pal, or anybody else that doesn't live in the same country as you do. I live - if that's the right word to use - in England. It's YOUR government, not mine. After all, the majority of you voted for the SNP, I didn't. You are already a foreign country with your own laws on education, taxation, money-making, legal system and new firearms legislation. I'd say that basically, you're ****ed.

As for the American 'gun lobby', whatever that might be, I think you'd find that most Americans, let alone those whose interest lies in shooting sports, are of the opinion that Braveheart was the real name of Mel Gibson, and that all of Scotland looks like the various whiskey/whisky adverts, and that everybody wears a kilt, even down the whiskey/whisky mines. The very least of their worries are the foibles of a bunch of loons three thousand miles away and their rather odd take on airguns.

tac
Life Member of the real NRA

Hi Tac,

Politics? We had enough of that last year...seriously! Unfortunately for you, I think you are kidding your self, just as I have been. I thought the S. Government would listen to logical debate and pass a simple Air Riffle Register which effectively logs riffles to riffle owners. But alas, they are opting for a much more punitive regulatory system, pretty much the same as the FAC (without the gun cabinet at the moment). I'm afraid to say this will start to have something to do with you, or any air gun enthusiast in England and Wales. It's inevitable that Government will try to follow suite in the rest of the UK if this goes through in Scotland. UK policy continuity. It's too bureaucratic (and daft) to run two gun control regulatory systems. Also, as Scotland passes, it will snowball and give momentum to the anti air gun lobbying in England and Wales.

I very much hope I'm wrong for all of you down south, but these things have a habit of growing in momentum. It's a very enjoyable hobby of mine going out for a rough shoot/ stroll with the Air Riffle and shoot some Rabbits, Pigeons or plinking and not expensive. So it's a kick in the teeth.

R

[Gunfun]

[QUOTE=Robo;6757079
I very much hope I'm wrong for all of you down south, but these things have a habit of growing in momentum. It's a very enjoyable hobby of mine going out for a rough shoot/ stroll with the Air Riffle and shoot some Rabbits, Pigeons or plinking and not expensive. So it's a kick in the teeth.

R[/QUOTE]
I think you're right and it will come to England. I'm quiet happy with my air rifles now, but will go FAC if English licencing happens.
When I lived in the US I met many deer hunters. They got 'tags' each year to shoot 3 or 5 deer for about £30. They put about 200 lbs of venison in the freezer each year, wild meat with no growth hormones, steroids or preservitives in it. As well as BBQing the steaks, they made sausages, burgers and jerky from the meat, all of which tasted delicious. The money they saved on supermarket meat went on hunting trips. Have fun Robo !

[Black Beard]

To help avoid it coming to UK we should highlight as many incidents of bad implementation, bad prosecutions, overloaded police forces that we can. It is no good just complaining on here.

[sleeprunner]

The whole process is going to be nigh on impossible to implement and manage due to the volume of applications and police resources.

I have been shooting air rifles for years - I am a member of a small bore club shooting indoors and have a seven gun cabinet etc so for me it was an easy upgrade to FAC and now have slots for 22lr bolt action, 22lr Semi auto and an FAC .22 air rifle - all for target shooting. I will still keep and shoot my sub 12 rifles as well. What I will need to do next year come the implementation is yet to be known but as far as I know my FAC will cover me for all the sub 12,s until it's time to renew - by that time I may be living in England anyway - that's our plan - nothing to do with shooting - just the crap weather up here lol

On another note my wife is a serving police officer of 23 years and in all her time in the job has never had to deal with an airgun incident - says it all really.

In talking to a few FEO's they all say there workload has increased due to the volume of FAC applicants and they also acknowledge - off the record of course - that the new airgun scheme up here will be problematic and nigh on impossible for the police to manage.

The whole thing is a mess and totally unnessary and all down to the SNP and that imbecile of a Justice secretary who has now gone but his legacy remains.

I despise the SNP for what they have done to this country and will never live in an independent Scotland

Rant over!!

[tacfoley]

To help avoid it coming to UK we should highlight as many incidents of bad implementation, bad prosecutions, overloaded police forces that we can. It is no good just complaining on here.

Ignoring the possibly impending Scottish airgun problem/legislation, Wales and England still have the 6/12 ft lb law. Norn Iron follows the rest of the island of Ireland in needing a FAC for ANY air gun over 1 Joule.

Scotland, BTW, is STILL part of the UK - the Independence Referendum decided that.

tac

[RichardH]

The clever thing to do might well be to put your current rifle on FAC now assuming you have a cabinet and land to shoot on.

Then you can up the power whenever you like, add a proper rifle at a later date and so on.

An airgun doesn't have to be over 12 to be on an FAC it can be done now and uprated later (or even never)

In fact if you want to apply for an FAC later for powder burners anyway then doing it now might be a good idea once you have the certificate extra guns are easy to add on and you'll avoid all the chaos of watching the police trying to implement a mess of an airgun licence.

A huge proportion of those who put their Brococks on FAC went on to acquire bigger and better guns as a direct consequence of the last effort, it would be great for shooting as a whole if the same happened again

[RobF]

An airgun doesn't have to be over 12 to be on an FAC it can be done now and uprated later (or even never)

Can you name the regions that allow that Richard? Mine will not. It might help if i can provide a reference.

[gingernut]

Good post Tacfoley.

You might add that if the Scots want to licence the possession of automatic weapons or indeed make the owning of firearms licence free there is absolutely sod all we can do about it.

You cannot assume that a predictable left wing government will always be in power north of the border can you?

[tacfoley]

Good post Tacfoley.

You might add that if the Scots want to licence the possession of automatic weapons or indeed make the owning of firearms licence free there is absolutely sod all we can do about it.

You cannot assume that a predictable left wing government will always be in power north of the border can you?

True thing.

However, both of your scenaria are about as likely as Ms Sturgeon becoming the next pope. In any case, the licensing - in general rather than that of arms dealers and distributors - of fully automatic FIREARMS is forbidden within the EU. Your scenario would therefore only have a possibility of becoming a reality if Scotland were to leave the EU.

tac

[gingernut]

If we are both spared I suggest we review the situation in 21 years time.
That's the length of time between The War to End All Wars and Hitlers little jaunt.

[RichardH]

Good post Tacfoley.

You might add that if the Scots want to licence the possession of automatic weapons or indeed make the owning of firearms licence free there is absolutely sod all we can do about it.

You cannot assume that a predictable left wing government will always be in power north of the border can you?

Good point, it would actually be the easiest region to restart pistol shooting

All we need is to start a party and win 50 seats Tac?

[tacfoley]

Good point, it would actually be the easiest region to restart pistol shooting

All we need is to start a party and win 50 seats Tac?

With the appalling horror of Dunblane to look back on, IMO Scotland is probably the least likely place on the planet to 'restart' pistol shooting. The massacre, carried out by a Scot person in Scotland with handguns held by permission of a Scottish police authority, has real resonance even now.

tac

[Garvin]

Good post Tacfoley.

You might add that if the Scots want to licence the possession of automatic weapons or indeed make the owning of firearms licence free there is absolutely sod all we can do about it.

You cannot assume that a predictable left wing government will always be in power north of the border can you?

I think the devolution of firearms powers to Holyrood was specific to sub-12 ft/lbs airguns and not FAC-rated guns, air or powder burning, which are still in the ambit of Westminster. Or is this wrong?