Another Webley Bargain

[johnbaz]

Hells bells and buckets of sludge!!

£900 was the hammer price!!

The auction stalled at lot 288 as the fire alarm sounded!!


John

[Abasmajor]

Hells bells and buckets of sludge!!

£900 was the hammer price!!

The auction stalled at lot 288 as the fire alarm sounded!!


John

Interesting to note that this was the only air gun in what was a general antique sale.

I agree that £900 hammer (circa £1,200 with costs) is well over the top for a lot where the canvas case represented the most valuable item in the set !

We must also bear in mind that this was a pre-war Mk1 in a case which would have originally housed a pre-war 'Slant Grip' Senior.

Just goes to show how difficult it is to predict what will happen at auctions.

Regards

Brian

[AllanM]

I was at the auction and the there didn't seem to be a great deal of interest in the room which petered out around £160 -- bidding then quickly shot up to £600 and continued on the internet to £900.

This was the only airgun in the sale amongst what was generally bric-a-brac and furniture and I suspect the auctioneer didn't know what he'd got.

[Troubledshooter]

Glad to see my estimate wasn't far out, although the auctioneers charges make it an expensive purchase, and if you can find an original Webley Valvespout oil can for £300, you've got an absolute bargain, as, if you can actually find one, the price is more likely to be in the £450 area, as is the canvas and leather case. The Rexine case will also cost a similar amount.
I think it was unfortunate the sale was not a specialised arms sale, as it wouldn't have surprised me if the item in question had reached a higher hammer price.
I would certainly not put any of my collection in a general sale, although there can be bargains to be had in such sales.

[guy]

Well.... It sold for 900......

[Abasmajor]

Glad to see my estimate wasn't far out, although the auctioneers charges make it an expensive purchase, and if you can find an original Webley Valvespout oil can for £300, you've got an absolute bargain, as, if you can actually find one, the price is more likely to be in the £450 area, as is the canvas and leather case. The Rexine case will also cost a similar amount.
I think it was unfortunate the sale was not a specialised arms sale, as it wouldn't have surprised me if the item in question had reached a higher hammer price.
I would certainly not put any of my collection in a general sale, although there can be bargains to be had in such sales.

Hello David,

Out of interest my valuation would have been based on the following estimations:

Pre-war Webley canvas case in good condition £350. I would have thought more (nearer £400) for post-war case based on comparative rarity.

Pre-war Mk1 pistol in good condition £250.

The Bulldog pellet pack, box lid and additional paperwork £80.

Additional premium for a contemporary set £0

So my total estimate would be £680 inclusive of costs which goes to show how wrong one can be when deciding what might happen at auction, particularly with the advent of the internet.

Regards

Brian

[micky]

Also sold today at auction LP53 with brown grips no box, condition very good with just a few marks on it £220 hammer price.

[Abasmajor]

Couldn't resist posting a picture of what this set should have contained when originally available in the late thirties.

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...pscd6ae46f.jpg


Regards

Brian

[Josie & John]

Couldn't resist posting a picture of what this set should have contained when originally available in the late thirties.

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...pscd6ae46f.jpg


Regards

Brian

Very nice Brian,

The canvas & Leather case could accommodate the slant grip Mark I, although it was not such a good fit without a little fettling. Most shooters who opted for a Webley case would have been able to afford a Senior, so original cased Mark Is are going to be very much in the minority. I recall the late Dr Joe Gilbart picturing one in a Guns Review article decades ago and Dennis Hiller had one for sale a little later. Even stranger, a post war Webley price list I have seen mentions the leatherette case being suitable for Junior, Senior and Mark I! The Mark I did not really fit the last leatherette case, which was semi contoured to the pistol as the trigger adjusting screw got in the way.

If this particular cased set and box have remained together since they left the factory, they make a very interesting item. The serial number would be correct for a post 1938 pistol.

Kind regards,

John

[Abasmajor]

Very nice Brian,

The canvas & Leather case could accommodate the slant grip Mark I, although it was not such a good fit without a little fettling. Most shooters who opted for a Webley case would have been able to afford a Senior, so original cased Mark Is are going to be very much in the minority. I recall the late Dr Joe Gilbart picturing one in a Guns Review article decades ago and Dennis Hiller had one for sale a little later. Even stranger, a post war Webley price list I have seen mentions the leatherette case being suitable for Junior, Senior and Mark I! The Mark I did not really fit the last leatherette case, which was semi contoured to the pistol as the trigger adjusting screw got in the way.

If this particular cased set and box have remained together since they left the factory, they make a very interesting item. The serial number would be correct for a post 1938 pistol.

Kind regards,

John

Hello John,

I hadn't realised that these sets could be obtained from the factory with anything other than a Senior. As you say an interesting set, but way to pricey in my opinion. Might have to revise my estimate for the Holts post-war Senior set in light of this surprising result.

Note Holts still have the internet only vintage BSA airguns sale listed on their site and starting tomorrow, but no clues about what might be on offer.

A friend of mine who once worked for Sotheby's and still does valuations, has advised that he is presently valuing a large collection of vintage air guns coming up for auction soon. I will try and get a look at the CD containing the pictures and let you know if anything interesting is included. He recently loaned me a couple of Parker Hale catalogues from 1939 & 1944 which I'm about to have a browse through with a well earned cup of coffee.

Regards

Brian

[Josie & John]

Hello John,

I hadn't realised that these sets could be obtained from the factory with anything other than a Senior. As you say an interesting set, but way to pricey in my opinion. Might have to revise my estimate for the Holts post-war Senior set in light of this surprising result.

Note Holts still have the internet only vintage BSA airguns sale listed on their site and starting tomorrow, but no clues about what might be on offer.

A friend of mine who once worked for Sotheby's and still does valuations, has advised that he is presently valuing a large collection of vintage air guns coming up for auction soon. I will try and get a look at the CD containing the pictures and let you know if anything interesting is included. He recently loaned me a couple of Parker Hale catalogues from 1939 & 1944 which I'm about to have a browse through with a well earned cup of coffee.

Regards

Brian

Hi Brian,

Webley were a little cagey by advertising the case for their air 'pistols' rather than a specific model and ultimately the Senior fits them the best. Agreed we probably should revise our estimates of the Holts sets.

I have a number of AGP and PH catalogues, which make excellent reference material but don't have the ones you mention. Early catalogues describe the BSA CS as a the Special Club model and this is probably the reason many collectors call them the Club Special rather than Club Standard.

I'm intrigued by what may be in the Holts and Sothebys sales, so please do keep us posted on the latter!

Kind regards,

John