Did the Accuracy & Power tests on both my SAA's (hmmm)

[Marc.RG1]

Hi guys

A few hours ago i did the accuracy & power tests on both my umarex colt SAA peacemakers, which gave me some interesting results i much say..

First of nice picture i think..

http://i60.tinypic.com/i2lhue.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/30tqvys.jpg

Well the tests i did were, chrony and accuracy tests with H&N Copper coated lead BB's, Gamo lead balls and umarex steel BB's and a total shot count, all with both guns, and i did get some interesting results i think..

First of then chrony results.
Antique SAA
Umarex Steel BB's: (5.4grain) 404.6 fps - 400.6 fps - 398.1 fps
H&N Copper Coated Lead BB's: (7.4grain) 348.7 fps- 347.6 fps - 342.4 fps
Gamo Lead Balls: (8.18grain) 330.1 fps - 326.6 fps - 325.1 fps

Nickel SAA
Umarex Steel BB's: (5.4grain) 394.1 fps - 391.6 fps - 385.7 fps
H&N Copper Coated Lead BB's: (7.4grain) 344.3 fps - 340.6 fps - 334.6 fps
Gamo Lead Balls: (8.18grain) 318.9 fps - 315.6 fps - 313.1 fps

Reasonable FPS with quite good consistency, the Antique version seem to shoot a little hotter but i think that could be the shells, but that much difference in FPS is nothing really, both guns also gave me around 90 shots per Co2 capsule as well..

Now for what i found to be most interesting and fun to do, the shooting accuracy tests..

Ok in both guns i used gamo lead balls just once, i found them to group ok at 18ft but they was the least consistently accurate and shoot lower so i decided to stop using them, plus the graphite lube makes the inner barrel dirty fast..

Right the Nickel version first then, same tests 18ft distance with the gun semi rested on a sand back, i did 6 targets of 6 shots for each ammo type and took the best results..

I found, like a few of you H&N copper coated lead BB's to work well and ''MAY'' have been a little more accurate then the umarex steel BB's but really it was too hard to call, i found them to be as consistently as accurate as each other in a way, but because of the price difference ill be sticking with umarex steel BB's..

lets show you the target then for the Nickel SAA with H&N copper coated BB's and Umarex Steel BB's..
As you can see both were reasonably accurate, i think once i master the sights the groupings might get a little tighter.. The H&N BB's had a tighter grouping horizontally but the Umarex steel BB's had a tighter grouping vertically, was it me? or was it the BB? only more tests and time will tell that, but either way im happy with both results on the Nickel SAA..

http://i59.tinypic.com/ms15bl.jpg

Now then, now the Antique version of the SAA, i got slightly different results, on every target i did and no matter what BB's i was using i had one or two fliers, Not a problem if your not a fussy twit like me or hitting cans, but yeah when your hitting scoring targets you dont want that lol.. Apart from the flier on each target, it was still a reasonable grouping, i did also find once again that the H&N and umarex BB's performed basically the same..

http://i62.tinypic.com/2u44g94.jpg

So then i thought, ok these fliers cant be me right? they have too be either the barrel or the cartridges, so i put the cartridges from the Nickel SAA in to the Antique SAA and i had no fliers at all..


http://i57.tinypic.com/xc21w9.jpg

So one or two of the shells from the Antique gun causes fliers.. So now im thinking buy some new shells and maybe sell these ones, or just keep them aside for plinking, because im just to fussy to know that i have 1 or 2 shells that can cause a flier when score card shooting, lol

All in all though im happy with how both guns performed and had a good evening shooting them, roll on tuesday so i can take them both to gun club and do some plinking..
ATB, Marc..

[magnummike]

Nice test Marc I'm getting one flyer all the time with my Colt and thought it maybe a rouge shell Ive bought 6 the other day so will identify and replace it ATB Mike

[Geezer]

Marc,

This used to happen with the old (now banned) Brocock guns.

Each cartridge varies in tolerances. So you'd end up with a little pile of good ones, a little pile of not so good ones, and a little pile of ones that didn't work at all. Then you'd rebuild the not good ones and the not working ones and test again, and put them in new little piles.

If you were me, at some point you would say "sod this" and shoot something more reliable.

At least for the SAA, cartridges are currently plentiful and fairly cheap. So a big pile of good ones shouldn't be too hard to acquire.

I imagine this also affects the MkVI, Nagant, Dan Wesson, Python, etc. Interested to hear if it does.

[Marc.RG1]

Hi Mike thank you for the comment mate..

Fingers crossed with the new shells you will be able to eliminate that flier, i have just ordered another set of shells to..
i think i will still keep the other set that i get a flyer with because even with the flyer it would still hit a tin can no problem at 20+ft, but when we want that 1'' or 1.5'' grouping, we cant accept that flyer a.. lol

[Josie & John]

I used to own a Uberti TAC fiting Cattleman, which with its case hardened frame was probably better made than the original Colts! As nice as it was, you could never rely on the TACs, which took a lot of messing with and often misfired. The Umarex Colt is more accurate and more consistent than the Uberti was, despite the latter's edge on power. Give me accuracy and consistency over power any day.

John

[Benelli B76]

We were shooting ours at our forest range Friday. I noticed that the cartridges are a lose fit in the chambers and slightly tip down with gravity at the exit end opposite the flash gap. Has anybody tried centralising the cartridges somehow with PTFE tape or suchlike ? You can do this with the Colt as the cartridges can be kept in place when loading bbs. Accuracy could then be improved.

Baz

[jassi]

Marc,

This used to happen with the old (now banned) Brocock guns.

Each cartridge varies in tolerances. So you'd end up with a little pile of good ones, a little pile of not so good ones, and a little pile of ones that didn't work at all. Then you'd rebuild the not good ones and the not working ones and test again, and put them in new little piles.

If you were me, at some point you would say "sod this" and shoot something more reliable.

At least for the SAA, cartridges are currently plentiful and fairly cheap. So a big pile of good ones shouldn't be too hard to acquire.

I imagine this also affects the MkVI, Nagant, Dan Wesson, Python, etc. Interested to hear if it does.

I noticed years ago that the bores in the DW cylinder varied slightly and that one was always slightly undersized compared with the others. While the difference was small, it might go some way to explaining flyers, particularly if an oversize bore coincided with an undersize cartridge.

The Webley shows the same variability, though I haven't checked the SAA

[Benelli B76]

We were shooting ours at our forest range Friday. I noticed that the cartridges are a lose fit in the chambers and slightly tip down with gravity at the exit end opposite the flash gap. Has anybody tried centralising the cartridges somehow with PTFE tape or suchlike ? You can do this with the Colt as the cartridges can be kept in place when loading bbs. Accuracy could then be improved.

Baz

I took the silence as a "no" and have just done it myself. One layer of Stadium PTFE tape at the front of the cartridge and one layer at the back tightens the fit in the chamber. Off to church now so will have to test grouping when I get home.

Baz

[Marc.RG1]

I took the silence as a "no" and have just done it myself. One layer of Stadium PTFE tape at the front of the cartridge and one layer at the back tightens the fit in the chamber. Off to church now so will have to test grouping when I get home.

Baz

Hi guys

yeah there is slight movement on the cartridges that sit loose in the cylinder, but only on the 5 that are not pushed against the barrel and co2 valve, the cartridge that presses against the spring loaded barrel and co2 valve has no wobble what so ever, so putting PTFE tape around the tip and base of the cartridges will not do nothing i think..

ATB, Marc

[harvey_s]

Apparently lead pellets will fit the cartridges, what is the accuracy like with these? Maybe it'll help with the fliers...

[Marc.RG1]

Hi Harvey, if you look at the pictures in my first post your see what the accuracy is like mate.
Yeah you can use pellets with these some people I know a few people that have stopped using pellets in the cartridges though as the skirt can damage the seals on the cartridges, and accuracy wise is about the same..
ATB, marc..

[Hombre]

Apparently lead pellets will fit the cartridges, what is the accuracy like with these? Maybe it'll help with the fliers...

Have a look at this - the guy is a real case but actually knows what he's talking about in the main. See also his video on powering up/or down the Dan Wesson 2.5 Nickel.

He's actually not correct regarding the pellets not working in the SAA as I and others it would appear have tried it and they work just fine pushed in flush with cartridge skirt. It may be however that continued use could damage the cartridge rim but as far as accuracy is concerned I have found the grouping with pellets to be noticeably better than steel BBs. Not tried the copper coated lead BBs yet, though I think they will reduce rebound from steel pellet traps considerably.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvCFMK_b5YQ

ATB
Hombre

[gingernut]

1.I tend not to take advice from people who wave guns around and look into barrels.

2.Your manual says use ONLY steel BBs

3. Use of lead pellets will invalidate your warranty.

4. It will probably damage your shells or gun.

If you are that keen on lead put some leaded petrol into your car and see how you get on.

[Hombre]

1.I tend not to take advice from people who wave guns around and look into barrels.

2.Your manual says use ONLY steel BBs

3. Use of lead pellets will invalidate your warranty.

4. It will probably damage your shells or gun.

If you are that keen on lead put some leaded petrol into your car and see how you get on.

The provision of the link was primarily in direct response to Harvey's question regarding pellet accuracy in the CAA as it
demonstrates the answer quite nicely I feel and that after all is the subject matter of this thread.

I'm sure that few of us would argue with your philosophy of not taking, too seriously, advice from someone who is, shall we say, a little erratic and eccentric in his demonstrations involving guns. However, I would have thought that most on this board would have taken the hint from my early comment that "this guy is a real case".

As for manuals, they tell you lots of things, some very sensible, others moderately so and yet more, totally inane. If mankind had stuck to the manual we'd all be still living in caves. Regarding your points three and four, frankly, I don't care. I have more than one of these guns and several spare cartridges and am prepared to experiment in the name of accuracy and not least safety. The use of the copper coated lead BBs has indeed proven to be much safer than steel and they flatten nicely on impact in a steel pellet trap whereas the steel are apt to rebound unexpectedly. I for one would prefer to potentially void my warranty than to unnecessarily risk injury from a rebound, because of what the manual says.

Obviously this is a personal choice not a recommendation to others.

As for your comment regarding lead in my car I'm afraid I am unable to answer in any sensible fashion since your point would appear to fall somewhere between being a mixed metaphor and a non sequitur.

For all that I'm sure you were merely trying to be helpful and if so I am most grateful for the pointers.

ATB
Hombre

[Marc.RG1]

hi guys,
i just thought i would quickly add this..
i seem to get just as tight grouping using umarex steel BB's or H&N copper coated lead BB's as most tend to get when using pellets, the grouping mak shows using pellets in hes video i think are quite average, so high accuracy even for a BB shooter its not quite true..

Dont get me wrong though i like some of maks videos and he is a nice guy to talk to as well..

Also i know people use pellets in their peacemaker, but lets not forget the smooth bore barrels that come in BB airguns are quite tight for pellets, the barrels are quite a bit tighter then a 4.5mm rifled barrel,, so when using pellets, pellets will leave a lead coating/dust etc inside your inner barrel, and after time this will build up, And because the barrels on these peacemakers are not easy to clean as the cylinder can not be removed unless the gun is completely taken to bits, i would not wont to use pellets in mine,, you can clean the barrel with a push rod from the muzzle end but once again, your pushing the dust/dirt etc down towards the cylinder which is not ideal..

What i say is, do you really want to dirty the barrel and risk damaging the seal on the cartridges just for a possible 5mm or so better grouping and like i said umarex or H&H BB's seem to do just as good a job anyway, well for me and a few others at least..
If you dont want rebounds go for the H&N copper coated BB's, they will not dirty your barrel half as quickly as lead pellets will and will also not damage your seals either..

Its just my thoughts guys, im not saying im right and others are wrong its just my opinion.

ATB, Marc..