Target price

[colin57]

Our club has just increased the cost to members of NSRA 6yds and 10m targets to 15pence each! NSRA sells them for less than 6 pence each. I think the club is now taking the p***, I don't mind the club sticking a bit on but this seems over the top, or am I just tight?

[Hemmers]

Feel free to order your own from the NSRA at 6p/target then

Whilst more than doubling the price does seem to be excessive, either the club paid postage (paper is heavy), or a member has driven there and back.

And then I would expect the club to stuff a couple of pence profit on targets. So you're looking at:

6p+delivery+profit = 15p

Obviously you would have to ask your own committee what the delivery and profit components look like. If you were in Surrey I'd think it ridiculous. Peterlee - depends how they made their way from the NSRA to you, and at what cost.

EDIT: Huh, Didn't realise NSRA postage was included in the price. Wrangling a courier down to get targets at 4-6p/target incl. postage is impressive, and does make a 3-4x mark-up seem rather excessive, though it's hard to say without seeing the club's accounts.

[PhatMan]

colin57,

I recently bought some 10m air-pistol targets from Kruger, and including postage, these worked out to 2.5p each

http://targets.krueger-shops.eu/kdv_ueberuns.php?VID=

Have fun

Best regards

Russ

[Hemmers]

Bearing in mind the Krugers are not approved by the NSRA for competitions. Fine for training, just don't mix them up and accidentally put stickers on them or you'll find yourself facing a score sheet full of zeroes

[DedIdick]

Our club doesn't charge for Targets; they're included in the £40 annual subscription.

[18 Wheeler]

Our club has just increased the cost to members of NSRA 6yds and 10m targets to 15pence each! NSRA sells them for less than 6 pence each. I think the club is now taking the p***, I don't mind the club sticking a bit on but this seems over the top, or am I just tight?

I agree with you.
The NSRA shop has them for 5p and 4.6p each respectively (those are delivered prices), it seems odd that a club should do anything to discourage members from actually shooting. It probably doesn't amount to a huge amount of cash over the course of a year, but daft nonetheless IMO.

NSRA Shop Air3/89 and Air7

Ask the committee to revise the pricing change, if no joy get a few of you together and buy your own. HTH

[Fierynick]

Hello All,
I have to say that on the face of it this does seem quote a big mark-up. However depending what your range fees and membership fees are I suppose you might be getting a bargain.
Personally (and I go to Bisley most weekends to train) I buy pellets 5000 at a time, and targets 2000 at a time. I would suggest you do the same, or even find someone at your club to go halves on a thousand with.
Kruger and Edelman targets are also great, but I couldn't vouch for their issf approval.
Sadly shooting is expensive, but by bulk buying, or sharing a financial burden you might just save a little bit!

[bullbarrel]

Go to your next AGM and examine the accounts, or ask for last years set.

A club has a lot of expenses (depending on its set up) and most aren't shooting related. At my last club the top three expenses after ammo where heating, cleaning and electricity.

Income sources are fairly limited. Charge one or more of annual membership, per visit or per target. There are always winners and losers. If you are someone who shoots a lot then a low membership, high per target seems a rip off. But for someone who shoots once a month the high membership and free targets isn't cost effective.

You can never make all the people happy all the time. The key to a good committee is to ensure the club can meet its expenses, attract new members, grow and hopefully keep most of the people happy most of the time.


So find out why its gone up and what the justification is. It might surprise you. And it still sounds cheaper than the PL8s we sometime shoot at Bisley

[colin57]

Thanks for all the reply's guys, we do normally buy direct from the NSRA in bulk, 3000 of each type and this has free delivery, which means they come in at less than 6p each and we were happy to pay 10p each.
Just over 100 members @ £85 per year and 50pence range fee. The club is owned by the members, as for the books or an annual audit report not seen either one in a few years. We have been told that it is running at a profit but not seen anything to back this up, I think we have a problem!

[zanes]

Thanks for all the reply's guys, we do normally buy direct from the NSRA in bulk, 3000 of each type and this has free delivery, which means they come in at less than 6p each and we were happy to pay 10p each.
Just over 100 members @ £85 per year and 50pence range fee. The club is owned by the members, as for the books or an annual audit report not seen either one in a few years. We have been told that it is running at a profit but not seen anything to back this up, I think we have a problem!

Yes, and it's bigger than 9 pence per target (as I think you realise!)

I'd expect yearly accounts to at least be presented for inspection at the AGM.

[Turnup]

Thanks for all the reply's guys, we do normally buy direct from the NSRA in bulk, 3000 of each type and this has free delivery, which means they come in at less than 6p each and we were happy to pay 10p each.
Just over 100 members @ £85 per year and 50pence range fee. The club is owned by the members, as for the books or an annual audit report not seen either one in a few years. We have been told that it is running at a profit but not seen anything to back this up, I think we have a problem!

No reports? I think you have a problem too. How does anyone know if the treasurer is having a foreign holiday at your expense?

For small non-profit organisations there is no need to pay for a formal auditor - we just get another committee member to go over the accounts and confirm that it is all correct (and that confirmation is entered into the minutes of the AGM, which gives a degree of protection to the Treasurer).

There is also another problem - how will the club show that it is non-profit when the taxman asks?

How will the club show it is VAT exempt when the VATman calls?

The requirement to produce accounts should be written into the club constitution and access to the accounts constitutes one of the rights of the members.

....or are you going to tell me there is also no constitution?

[Hemmers]

For small non-profit organisations there is no need to pay for a formal auditor - we just get another committee member to go over the accounts and confirm that it is all correct (and that confirmation is entered into the minutes of the AGM, which gives a degree of protection to the Treasurer).

The other suggestion I've seen - a half-way house between a committee or club member checking them and getting a formal audit - is to strike up a deal with another local club - not even shooting necessarily, local football or cricket club, and inspect each other's accounts. As a point of order for the AGM minutes or whatever, it's only an audit if it's formally conducted by a qualified auditor - "audit" is a reserved term. Any less formal arrangement is noted simply as the accounts being inspected.

There is also another problem - how will the club show that it is non-profit when the taxman asks?

To be fair, any income derived from members is not taxable, on the basis that you're just a group of people mutually pooling your personal income on some joint asset ("mutual trading"). They don't need to be non-profit, but they need to be able to show where club income has come from. Taxinsider - which actually uses clay pigeon shooting as an example scenario!

However, any income derived from non-members is indeed taxable, and the taxman will get interested if your liability hits £100 (Corporation tax is currently 20%, so that's a non-member profit of £500 or more). For instance, a club I was in turned over £20k+/yr from membership fees, range fees and ammo/target sales. We normally made some profit for the rainy day fund in case the boiler broke down, but that was not taxable - all mutual trading thus far.

We also hosted a couple of guest days for a member's colleagues - 15-20 people at £25/head comes to £4-500 (people will pay good money to come shooting!). We did two days and pulled in about £800-1000. None of those people were members, so it was a commercial activity, and thus any profit was taxable. If we had cleared made more than £500 in profit, we would have had to cut a cheque to the taxman.

....or are you going to tell me there is also no constitution?

Seen that done Needs remedying rapidly if there isn't one - the NSRA and NRA have fill-in-the-blank sample constitutions. The NSRA did ask clubs to submit their constitutions along with their affiliation forms a few years ago, so there shouldn't be many out there without an adequate document in place. Don't know if the NRA have conducted any similar exercises.

[colin57]

Many thanks again to all who have responded to my post.
We do have a constitution, although I think it has been ignored in recent years, and it is now time for us to take some form of action and get this club organised properly.
I do think apathy has set in with some of the members who have been there longer than me and it needs sorting out. With the building that we have and the positive outlook of some of us, this has the potential to be a great club and an asset
to the sport. I will keep you all informed of our progress.