Why do top end springers have mid to high swept volume?

[Barryg]

It seems only the low end starter rifles have short stroke low swept volume, why do none of the springer manufacture's
Cater for those who want a mid or high end rifle with a short stroke.

[tinbum]

Because the UK is a comparatively small market place. In the U.S anything under 1000fps is considered a toy.

[Barryg]

Because the UK is a comparatively small market place. In the U.S anything under 1000fps is considered a toy.

I'm not sure that explains why there are no high end springers with short strokes because even Diana redused the stroke on their underlever with the 430/40 that would be way under 1000 fps for the US but still not a short stroke.

It seems no manufacture is interested in short stroke.

[lensman57]

Because the UK is a comparatively small market place. In the U.S anything under 1000fps is considered a toy.

There is more than an element of truth in this statement. The other problem with the low legal limit of the UK air rifle is that in particular pellets designed as Hunters or pest control which are mostly of hollow point design do not reach the necessary ft/s for the design to work. A lot of the experiments carried out show that for .22 hollow points to properly mushroom and flatten out a minimum speed of 950~1000 ft/s is required. With the UK .22 sub 12 rifles the max speed for a typical pellet is about 600 ft/s. So best stick to domed pellets.

A.G

[Shed tuner]

Yup, american market, power, power power...

If you want to plink at low power (i.e. 12 FP), you just need a crap junior "toy" gun.

[countryboy]

The amount of swept volume, is not really a problem. For donkeys years air rifles have been designed this way. And for donkeys years shed tuners have been producing very sweet shooting guns. Short stroking is a bit of the latest fad, but don't forget most of the improvement in felt recoil and sound reduction comes from the proper fettling that also takes place. All short stroking does in reduce lock time by an amount that without the fettling, most of us would find hard to detect. I have a few, properly settled guns. All with large swept volume, all sweet shot cycles, none short stroked. Jim Tyler has done some amazingly good work on this, but it seems many have not fully read his conclusions.

[Barryg]

The amount of swept volume, is not really a problem. For donkeys years air rifles have been designed this way. And for donkeys years shed tuners have been producing very sweet shooting guns. Short stroking is a bit of the latest fad, but don't forget most of the improvement in felt recoil and sound reduction comes from the proper fettling that also takes place. All short stroking does in reduce lock time by an amount that without the fettling, most of us would find hard to detect. I have a few, properly settled guns. All with large swept volume, all sweet shot cycles, none short stroked. Jim Tyler has done some amazingly good work on this, but it seems many have not fully read his conclusions.

Are there any links to JIm Tyler articals on this subject?

[Shed tuner]

The amount of swept volume, is not really a problem...

Sorry, but i fundamentally disagree...

[rabbitwrecker]

The other problem with the low legal limit of the UK air rifle is that in particular pellets designed as Hunters or pest control which are mostly of hollow point design do not reach the necessary ft/s for the design to work. A lot of the experiments carried out show that for .22 hollow points to properly mushroom and flatten out a minimum speed of 950~1000 ft/s is required. With the UK .22 sub 12 rifles the max speed for a typical pellet is about 600 ft/s. So best stick to domed pellets.

You've got it in one, A.G. - which means that all these hollowpoint and other fancy designed pellets are simply a useless gimmick unless you run FAC. Having recovered many spent pellets from quarry over the years, I've found that a soft r/n pellet is likely to have deformed/mushroomed as much or more than any hollowpoint when fired from a sub-12 ft/lb rifle...

[Barryg]

Sorry, but i fundamentally disagree...

Jon,
I was wondering do you think that real world experiments with airguns can compeat with CAD simulations that manufacturs have access to and can the public buy the software?

[Shed tuner]

Jon,
I was wondering do you think that real world experiments with airguns can compeat with CAD simulations that manufacturs have access to and can the public buy the software?

There are so many assumptions burried within that question I wouldn't even know where to start !

However, as a general statement, in every field, real world experiments and data are always more reliable than simulations...

[POK!]

Sorry, but i fundamentally disagree...

No one who wants to stay in business is going to design an action solely for UK market. If a UK airgunner thinks SV is super important then he needs to get informed and make his choice. Luckily, these days, we have lots of choice. I find the tech talk and modifications really interesting but I could never get behind the idea that manufacturers were doing it wrong as implied a lot recently until someone got banned. Personally, I'd like a sleeved down 80 but would probably simply buy a 99 and add weight for eg.

[T 20]

No one who wants to stay in business is going to design an action solely for UK market.

It would probably be commercial suicide if they did POK.

Most manufacturers have the 12ftlb market covered in their product range anyway --- in fact I can't think of a point in my lifetime when UK springer fans had as much choice of guns as we have now.



All the best Mick

[TonyL]

Agreed.

And many, many rifles with larger swept volumes can still be lovely to shoot at our limit. Indeed, some people will actually prefer the "lazier/softer" feel of some of these set-ups.

The majority of my guns are standard. One sleeved. A few Venom tuned. A few home "spit and polish" fettled. And I love them all.

And I have tried many heavily modded guns at The Bash events....reduced cylinder diameter, short strokes, lighter pistons, different piston seal set-ups......and they're all lovely!! I really appreciate the efforts of our resident expert "shed tuners", and many of their creations are utterly delicious. And long may it continue.

But that's not to say that the manufacturers' set-ups are disappointing and, as Mick says, these days we really are spoilt for choice for quality, accurate product.

[Snooper601]

Are there any links to JIm Tyler articals on this subject?

The only way is to get a digital subscription to Air Gun World and access the online back issues archive, it goes back quite a way iirc.

Cheers

John