Webley MK2 Service

[MWebbo]

Hi all

This being my first thread ...... apologies for any mistakes etc.

Having only just recently dipped my toe into the world of airguns, and being of the age (forty fourteen) where I tend to buy anything - from guitars to watches to cameras - on the basis that it must be older and wiser than me....... my first purchase has been a Webley MK2 Service. So far, I am enjoying the process alot!...hence joining this forum.

I was wondering if anyone has changed a breach seal on a MK2? is it an easy job (it look straight forward but...). Also, has anyone come across an original instruction sheet (don't think there was ever a 'manual' as such?). I have a few other questions but I'll stop there in case I've placed this thread in the wrong place or something...

Best regards

Martin

[BTDT]

...I have a few other questions but I'll stop there in case I've placed this thread in the wrong place or something...

Best regards

Martin

Not the 'wrong' place as such, Martin, but not the best to get the answers you seek, so I've moved it.

[splosh!]

just pull it out there be a brass bit inserted into the leather seal be careful not to damage it as you need that to put back into a new bit of leather you can make up if you have some old belts and hole punch but be hard to find an original leather one best to make one up . i find the new nylon ones keep jumping out

[Abasmajor]

[QUOTE=MWebbo;6815049]Hi all

This being my first thread ...... apologies for any mistakes etc.

Having only just recently dipped my toe into the world of airguns, and being of the age (forty fourteen) where I tend to buy anything - from guitars to watches to cameras - on the basis that it must be older and wiser than me....... my first purchase has been a Webley MK2 Service. So far, I am enjoying the process alot!...hence joining this forum.

I was wondering if anyone has changed a breach seal on a MK2? is it an easy job (it look straight forward but...). Also, has anyone come across an original instruction sheet (don't think there was ever a 'manual' as such?). I have a few other questions but I'll stop there in case I've placed this thread in the wrong place or something...

Best regards

Martin[/QUOTE

Hi Martin,

Webley did produce a very nice little instructional booklet to accompany the Mk2 Service, but original copies are now extremely rare and very collectable in their own right. Some reproduction copies were published some years ago and they often surface at Arms Fairs etc. Be very careful though, as it would need an expert to distinguish the difference.

I bought a replacement synthetic breech seal for my Mk2 Service from John Knibbs International which was very easy to insert and has so far given no problems.

Regards

Brian

[micky]

Hi and welcome to the BBS, there was a booklet that was surpplied with the service rifle when new giving hints on how to use rifle, keep an eye out on the internet as they sometimes come up for sale, but be carefull as these where reproduced a few years ago and have been pasted off as originals.

[Troubledshooter]

Welcome to the Airgunbbs.
As previously stated, a new breech washer for the Mk.II Service can be either be made from a suitable thickness of leather, or a modern synthetic alternative can also be obtained.
The booklet for the Mk.II Service is 'Hints On Air Rifle Shooting' by F.E.Morton, of which an excellent reproduction of the Sixth Edition is sometimes available. This also contains a folded illustrated parts list dated 1937 inside the rear cover.
Any other issue of this booklet, of which there are at least eight, will most likely be an original copy, but the repro. sixth edition will tell you all you want to know, and is normally available at reasonable cost.
If you utilize the 'Search' function of this BBS, you will find many useful threads on the Webley Service Mk.II which will probably answer most questions you may have.

[aimless]

Hi and welcome to the BBS, there was a booklet that was surpplied with the service rifle when new giving hints on how to use rifle, keep an eye out on the internet as they sometimes come up for sale, but be carefull as these where reproduced a few years ago and have been pasted off as originals.

Micky, how can I proof the authenticity of these booklets? I heard about ultraviolett light will show (white fibres??) if the paper is pre 1950 . Can anyone confirm this?

Jochen

[Josie & John]

Welcome to the world of collecting and to the Collectables section of this site Martin. You have certainly selected a fine rifle to start you along the merry path of airgun collecting.

The original breech washers can be notoriously difficult to remove after 70-80 years and would have had a brass 'Joint Reinforcing Ring' behind them, which also helped to keep the central hole open and correctly shaped in use. The best way is to remove the barrel and try to prize the washer and ring out with a suitable small bladed screwdriver or similar. Take care with the ring as it is no longer available and the original can be used again. If the existing washer is not too badly worn and you can close the breech with the bolt resting just off the rifle's body without tensioning it too much, my advise would be to leave it alone as it ought to work.

Kind regards,

John

[Josie & John]

Micky, how can I proof the authenticity of these booklets? I heard about ultraviolett light will show (white fibres??) if the paper is pre 1950 . Can anyone confirm this?

Jochen

Hi Jochen,

I am unsure about the white fibres you mention but the best advice is to avoid treating any 6th editions you encounter as originals. The difference in image quality becomes apparent when you compare a copy with an original side by side but as the copies were very good, it is very difficult to tell without an original to hand.

Another way is if a 6th edition is too clean, it is probably a reproduction. Original booklets are very rare but the reproduction 6th editions are worth acquiring for the information they contain alone.

Kind regards,

John

[wrightonn]

Hi, Martin, as John said, if the bolt is touching the air chamber, remove the seal, cut a piece of thin card and place behind, replace the seal, good temp fix, I think you can download a plan view on" Chambers gunsmiths " of the Service MK11.

Jochen, I think all the original booklets had a "one off", random, different pattern , on each cover, the copies, all have the same, "random" pattern cover, on the "full bbs collectors section listings" there is a post by (I think,) Binners, or Troubleshooter),it has photos of both types of covers, try searching under"morton booklet on " the repro one is quite easily spotted.

hope this helps, ATB, Ray.

meant to put "morton booklet on EEbay, Ray.

[Josie & John]

Hi, Martin, as John said, if the bolt is touching the air chamber, remove the seal, cut a piece of thin card and place behind, replace the seal, good temp fix, I think you can download a plan view on" Chambers gunsmiths " of the Service MK11.

Jochen, I think all the original booklets had a "one off", random, different pattern , on each cover, the copies, all have the same, "random" pattern cover, on the "full bbs collectors section listings" there is a post by (I think,) Binners, or Troubleshooter),it has photos of both types of covers, try searching under"morton booklet on " the repro one is quite easily spotted.

hope this helps, ATB, Ray.

meant to put "morton booklet on EEbay, Ray.

Coincidentally there is a very good article in the November 2015 issue of Airgunner by John Atkins, which refers to both an original and reprint of the booklet in question. John has also included some fascinating photos of the booklet's author Frank Morton using the Webley Service.

I have also pictured various editions of the booklet in Airgun Collector, a link to which can be found at the top of this Collectables section.

John

[Lakey]

Here is a photo of the front cover of an original third edition version of the "Hints on shooting booklet


http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps27a44217.jpg


Regards

Lakey

[Troubledshooter]

There are scans of a second edition Morton Booklet in my sig.site, Webley Service album.

I will post further scans tomorrow.

[ccdjg]

Micky, how can I proof the authenticity of these booklets? I heard about ultraviolett light will show (white fibres??) if the paper is pre 1950 . Can anyone confirm this?

Jochen

Yes, this is correct, although it is not fibres that show up, but the whole paper area that is not covered by print.

Before 1950 no paper was ever pure white. After 1950 the paper industry begain to put substances called optical brighteners in paper, which gave a very bright white appearance and after 1955 up to the present time virtually all paper has contained these. The interesting thing about these brighteners is that they are very easy to detect. All you have to do is shine a weak uktraviolet light on the paper, preferably in the dark or low light conditions, and the paper glows a brilliant blue. Paper that does not contain these additives just looks dark. This phenomenon is used as an anti-counterfeit measure for banknotes - real banknotes are printed on paper that does not have any optical brightener in it. Such paper is extremely difficult to source these days, so counterfeiters are often forced to use ordinary brightened paper. This means that most counterfeit notes will glow blue under ultraviolet light whereas a genuine note won't.

So you can assume the following:

1. Any printed literature or box label that DOES glow blue under ultraviolet light CANNOT POSSIBLY date from before 1950.

2. Any printed literature or box label that DOES NOT glow blue under ultraviolet light MOST PROBABLY, but not necessarily with absolute certainty, will date from before 1955.


I have used this technique several times to authenticate air pistol boxes and airgun literature. In particular one very convincing box claiming to be original to a pistol made in the 1920's was shown to be a fake by this method. This helped prevent an incorrect historical record being made, as a box for this particular pistol has never been reported before. Unfortunately it came too late to help the owner, who had paid a high premium for the box some time before.

In case you think ultraviolet testing might be too expensive for the average collector, note that you can buy perfectly adequate ultraviolet pens off fleabay for one or two pounds.

[Troubledshooter]

In case you think ultraviolet testing might be too expensive for the average collector, note that you can buy perfectly adequate ultraviolet pens off fleabay for one or two pounds.

Or if you have a stamp collecting pal, ask to borrow his watermark detector.