legal limit?

[spiderman]

Can anyone tell me how they came up with the figure of 12ft/lb for the limit for air rifles not requiring FAC.
Whats the difference between 11.9 and 12.1? 1n terms of power?

[DeadEye Tom]

In terms of hitting power sweet F.A..
In the eyes of the law one is legal one ain't
They had to draw the line somewhere..

[manxteddy]

Originally there was a gentleman'as agreement about power limitation between the government and manufacturers (BSA etc)based upon a certain weight of .22 pellet and 600 fps rounded up to 12ftb.
It was then made law and frankly I am happy with that and that we do not as yet need a permit.
The difference in power is just a few feet per second.
I guess there has to be a cut off point.
Frankly I think there are more important national issues than 12ftb.
If you think you might need more power then simply get an FAC.
Graham

[PAUL600RR]

0.2 of a ft lb

[Taff Williams]

In the wrong place and at the wrong time the difference could be 5 years

Ogri the trog

[jackg]

Firearms (Dangerous Air Weapons) Rules 1969.
UK gun mfrs lobbied Government to introduce this law to prevent US mfrs selling higher powered guns over here.
That's business.

The Case against Gun control

[I. J.]

Firearms (Dangerous Air Weapons) Rules 1969.
UK gun mfrs lobbied Government to introduce this law to prevent US mfrs selling higher powered guns over here.
That's business.

The Case against Gun control

I'd also heard that. The British manufacturers (BSA, Webley, Diana etc) couldn't keep up with the likes of the American pump ups (Sheridan, Benjamin etc.) in the power stakes so requested a legal limit.

[Rapidnick]

In the wrong place and at the wrong time the difference could be 5 years

Ogri the trog

This chestnut again!!! I have asked in several previous posts for any member to give me an example where ANYONE had been jailed for ANY LENGTH OF TIME let alone five years for JUST POSSESSING an air rifle of over 12 ft lb. The answer is NO ONE HAS!!! That does not mean to say that the 12 ft lb limit is to be flouted-just that we shouldn't be paranoid about it!
The answer to the original question is the same as for speed limits or any other kind of legal limit-drinking, smoking, driving etc: they are purely arbitrary.

[zebedee71]

Can anyone tell me how they came up with the figure of 12ft/lb for the limit for air rifles not requiring FAC.
Whats the difference between 11.9 and 12.1? 1n terms of power?

That would be a difference of 0.2

Zeb

[Brian.Samson]

This chestnut again!!! I have asked in several previous posts for any member to give me an example where ANYONE had been jailed for ANY LENGTH OF TIME let alone five years for JUST POSSESSING an air rifle of over 12 ft lb. The answer is NO ONE HAS!!! That does not mean to say that the 12 ft lb limit is to be flouted-just that we shouldn't be paranoid about it!
The answer to the original question is the same as for speed limits or any other kind of legal limit-drinking, smoking, driving etc: they are purely arbitrary.

Not sure how many active regular posters there are on this forum, probably not even 1,000 out of the 9,000 registered members at a guess. I'm also not sure how many people looked at your thread - less than 500 at another guess. Out of those just because no one (that was prepared to reply) knew of anyone that had been sent down for any length of time, isn't proof that not one of the 2,000,000 airgun owners in the country has fallen foul of the 12fpe limit with any one of the 6,000,000+ airguns in the country. Your answer of 'NO ONE HAS' makes some sweeping assumptions and may or may not be true.

What is true however is that there are sufficient laws in this country to deter airgun misuse without having to resort to bans or licensing, but they are sadly not common knowledge. Who in their right mind would go waving an airgun around if they knew they could face upto 14 years in prison.

You can call it paranoia if you like, I call it having a responsible attitude on a public forum and helping to make all those lurking guests aware of the seriousness of airgun misuse and the possible sentences they face.

All the best
Brian

[Terry D]

The answer is NO ONE HAS!!!

I assure you that the charge of an airgun-based 'unlawful possession of a firearm' has most certainly been the factor that has led to a custodial sentence, Nick. In fact, since the 'five years mandatory' law, at least three people to my knowledge are almost certain to do time over it.

Anyway, jail term or not, having a firearms offence on your CV is never going to be an advantage, is it?

Of course we don't need to be 'paranoid', but we do need to regard the legal limit as more than 'arbitrary'.

[RaveWar]

This chestnut again!!! I have asked in several previous posts for any member to give me an example where ANYONE had been jailed for ANY LENGTH OF TIME let alone five years for JUST POSSESSING an air rifle of over 12 ft lb. The answer is NO ONE HAS!!! That does not mean to say that the 12 ft lb limit is to be flouted-just that we shouldn't be paranoid about it!
The answer to the original question is the same as for speed limits or any other kind of legal limit-drinking, smoking, driving etc: they are purely arbitrary.

Not sure how many active regular posters there are on this forum, probably not even 1,000 out of the 9,000 registered members at a guess. I'm also not sure how many people looked at your thread - less than 500 at another guess. Out of those just because no one (that was prepared to reply) knew of anyone that had been sent down for any length of time, isn't proof that not one of the 2,000,000 airgun owners in the country has fallen foul of the 12fpe limit with any one of the 6,000,000+ airguns in the country. Your answer of 'NO ONE HAS' makes some sweeping assumptions and may or may not be true.

What is true however is that there are sufficient laws in this country to deter airgun misuse without having to resort to bans or licensing, but they are sadly not common knowledge. Who in their right mind would go waving an airgun around if they knew they could face upto 14 years in prison.

You can call it paranoia if you like, I call it having a responsible attitude on a public forum and helping to make all those lurking guests aware of the seriousness of airgun misuse and the possible sentences they face.

Rapidnick does have a point. What really gets on my wick is that on BBC its OK for the presenters of Top Gear to witter away about how unfair it is that the speed limits are enforced, and talk about points on their licence as some sort of badge of honour, yet for airgunners its some sort of shock - horror that an otherwise perfectly legally used airgun may have crept over the power limit due to no fault of the owner. And for further proof of the hypocracy compare the number of injuries and deaths on the roads caused by excessive speed with the number of airgun injuries caused by excessive power from the airgun. Difference is its politically acceptable to boast about driving fast.

I'm not advocating speeding, or flouting the airgun laws. As Rapidnick suggests, the judge would have to be in a pretty cranky mood to convict an otherwise lawful airgunner to 5 years imprisonment due to the power level creeping about. Owning a chronograph may help keep within the laws, but the chronograph's not there all the time unlike the speedo in your car, you just have to take the leap of faith the next shot will be similar to the last.

[Rapidnick]

Not sure how many active regular posters there are on this forum, probably not even 1,000 out of the 9,000 registered members at a guess. I'm also not sure how many people looked at your thread - less than 500 at another guess. Out of those just because no one (that was prepared to reply) knew of anyone that had been sent down for any length of time, isn't proof that not one of the 2,000,000 airgun owners in the country has fallen foul of the 12fpe limit with any one of the 6,000,000+ airguns in the country. Your answer of 'NO ONE HAS' makes some sweeping assumptions and may or may not be true.

What is true however is that there are sufficient laws in this country to deter airgun misuse without having to resort to bans or licensing, but they are sadly not common knowledge. Who in their right mind would go waving an airgun around if they knew they could face upto 14 years in prison.

You can call it paranoia if you like, I call it having a responsible attitude on a public forum and helping to make all those lurking guests aware of the seriousness of airgun misuse and the possible sentences they face.

All the best
Brian

Your point is only partly right. I accept the fact that just because no-one on this forum is prepared to say-openly or via email to me-that they knew of a person who had been jailed does not mean that no-one has been jailed-although it is a pretty good indicator as many active members of this forum are very well informed. However my information comes from many sources including the Police rather than just forum members. I repeat again: after considerable searching, I am unable to find one person who has been jailed just for having an air rifle tested and found to be operating above 12 ft lb. May I ask if you know of one? Just one will do.
Furthermore I take issue with your jibe about 'responsibility'. I take my legal obligations very seriously indeed. Not just for the benefit of the 'lurking guests' did I make the point about observing the 12 ft lb limit. You are free to use another word but I genuinely regard the threat of a five year jail term for just having an air rifle testing at over 12 ft lb as a paranoid reaction. This should not in any way lessen the care we as responsible air gunners take to keep our rifles 'legal'.

[Brian.Samson]

I wasn't having a jibe at you or questioning how responsible you are Nick, I apologise if it sounded that way.

[Brian.Samson]

I repeat again: after considerable searching, I am unable to find one person who has been jailed just for having an air rifle tested and found to be operating above 12 ft lb. May I ask if you know of one? Just one will do.

Try searching 4 posts above this one
( now I am having a jibe at you, but only tongue in cheek )